The E-series Build.

[Ekh]

Better perhaps to say something like "IIHS rates the Elio as equal or superior in crash safety to 4-star rated Fiat500x". Why? 1. Gets the respected IIHS name up front. 2. Compares the Elio's level of safety to a highly-rated vehicle by a known manufacturer of similar size.

BTW, one further problem of existing safety testing is that they don't rate anything under 1500 pounds... because there ARE no cars under 1500 pounds. The Elio is going to have its own class or "fight above its weight" in earning a safety rating.

 

[floydv]

Better perhaps to say something like "IIHS rates the Elio as equal or superior in crash safety to 4-star rated Fiat500x". Why? 1. Gets the respected IIHS name up front. 2. Compares the Elio's level of safety to a highly-rated vehicle by a known manufacturer of similar size.

BTW, one further problem of existing safety testing is that they don't rate anything under 1500 pounds... because there ARE no cars under 1500 pounds. The Elio is going to have its own class or "fight above its weight" in earning a safety rating.

Interesting approach, but in order to be comparable to the Fiat, they have to be tested using the same test protocols, which has already been discussed as not feasible. Maybe a better approach would be something like, "The Elio is designed to have the highest safety rating in the new class of autocycles for which state and federal legislation are currently under development."

An alternative, albeit likely more complicated and costly approach, is for NHTSA to develop a "passenger car, micro" vehicle class (1000-1499 pounds) and associated test protocols and define it to include three wheel vehicles like the Elio but with a mix of motorcycle and auto safety standards. The advantage to this is that it would facilitate Elio's inclusion into CAFE and lessen any perception of a reduced level of safety for the Elio.

 

[Ekh]

Interesting approach, but in order to be comparable to the Fiat, they have to be tested using the same test protocols, which has already been discussed as not feasible. Maybe a better approach would be something like, "The Elio is designed to have the highest safety rating in the new class of autocycles for which state and federal legislation are currently under development."

An alternative, albeit likely more complicated and costly approach, is for NHTSA to develop a "passenger car, micro" vehicle class (1000-1499 pounds) and associated test protocols and define it to include three wheel vehicles like the Elio but with a mix of motorcycle and auto safety standards. The advantage to this is that it would facilitate Elio's inclusion into CAFE and lessen any perception of a reduced level of safety for the Elio.

Aha! You didn't catch the careful language -- equal in safety to a vehicle that DOES have a standard (4 star in this case) safety rating. Doesn't mean the protocols were the same ... just that it's as safe as a vehicle that DOES use those protocols.

Luckily, appropriate test protocols are being worked out and far more experienced folks than us will figure out how to word things so Elios look like apples, not grapefruits, in the world of safety comparisons. Even though the Elio is actually a passion fruit!

 

[Johnny Acree]

In typing about this so called "5 star safety rating", I see an overlapping of two worlds.
The world of advertising is all smoke and mirrors.
The world of the testing lab is all hard facts.
If you combine these two worlds it gets confusing.

 

[Ekh]

In typing about this so called "5 star safety rating", I see an overlapping of two worlds.
The world of advertising is all smoke and mirrors.
The world of the testing lab is all hard facts.
If you combine these two worlds it gets confusing.

Quite right. And Elio's problem is that auto cycle facts don't line up 1:1 with automobile facts, at least as far as testing is concerned.

 

[Jambe]

Speaking of safety:
Sometimes it takes more than a safe vehicle...

Warning:
This video is graphic and disturbing, i.e., death. Troopers dash cam video.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=328964517158847

 

[AriLea]

Interesting approach, but in order to be comparable to the Fiat, they have to be tested using the same test protocols, which has already been discussed as not feasible. Maybe a better approach would be something like, "The Elio is designed to have the highest safety rating in the new class of autocycles for which state and federal legislation are currently under development."

An alternative, albeit likely more complicated and costly approach, is for NHTSA to develop a "passenger car, micro" vehicle class (1000-1499 pounds) and associated test protocols and define it to include three wheel vehicles like the Elio but with a mix of motorcycle and auto safety standards. The advantage to this is that it would facilitate Elio's inclusion into CAFE and lessen any perception of a reduced level of safety for the Elio.

Hopefully, EM will be able to say;
"The Elio is designed to have the highest safety rating available to the Autocycle vehicle class. This rating is generally comparable to the Five Star rating available to two and four seat passenger automobiles."

 

[RUCRAYZE]

For the "cannot have a 5-star rating" thing, you could say something like:

It's best to say NOTHING of 5 star rating, and pull it from the advertising. Registered, insured as a motorcycle, viewed as a (small) three wheel car, the "public" will replace their concerns by the very nature of the unit. In the past, for whatever reasons, E M has stated stuff that the had to be walked back- think "the crystal ball is broken" comment.
As to adding up sales, based on a raw numbers, omits all who have "want in", who's expression of interest can be generalized by the folks who were going to "invest" and too you'd have to exclude the incentives. IMO this is a very loose calculation.
AND it'll never secure a five star automobile rating- It would, should the category be instituted, perhaps a five star 3 wheel vehicle.
The insurance companies, will look very closely and just might rate it as a M C, as total loss will be less than replacement costs of 750cc's and up.

My major concern, the first fatel accidents, and the negative publicity it will generate-" passenger unable to escape , fiery crash." A 10 star rating could not negate this scenario

 

[Kuda]

It's best to say NOTHING of 5 star rating, and pull it from the advertising. Registered, insured as a motorcycle, viewed as a (small) three wheel car, the "public" will replace their concerns by the very nature of the unit. In the past, for whatever reasons, E M has stated stuff that the had to be walked back- think "the crystal ball is broken" comment.
As to adding up sales, based on a raw numbers, omits all who have "want in", who's expression of interest can be generalized by the folks who were going to "invest" and too you'd have to exclude the incentives. IMO this is a very loose calculation.
AND it'll never secure a five star automobile rating- It would, should the category be instituted, perhaps a five star 3 wheel vehicle.
The insurance companies, will look very closely and just might rate it as a M C, as total loss will be less than replacement costs of 750cc's and up.

My major concern, the first fatel accidents, and the negative publicity it will generate-" passenger unable to escape , fiery crash." A 10 star rating could not negate this scenario

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[floydv]

Aha! You didn't catch the careful language -- equal in safety to a vehicle that DOES have a standard (4 star in this case) safety rating. Doesn't mean the protocols were the same ... just that it's as safe as a vehicle that DOES use those protocols.

Luckily, appropriate test protocols are being worked out and far more experienced folks than us will figure out how to word things so Elios look like apples, not grapefruits, in the world of safety comparisons. Even though the Elio is actually a passion fruit!

Yes, ideally EM would develop testing protocols with NHTSA and/or IIHS so that the 1200 lb Elio's crash impact and avoidance results would be directly comparable to a 2400 lb four-wheeled car.

The key question in my mind is whether EM is willing to incur the presumably high costs that would be needed to develop autocycle-specific protocols that yield directly comparable results to bigger, more conventional cars. I'm assuming that NHTSA doesn't have resources to develop such protocols (unless Congress appropriates such resources), and IIHS won't have much incentive to develop such new protocols unless Elio becomes a runaway success (or, as a nod to conspiracy theorists, the big auto makers fund such a development for fear of Elio's threat to their market shares).