The E-series Build.

[Elio Amazed]

I'm sure once production starts, there will be pressure on local, state, and federal governments to purchase Elios too to save money on the cost of vehicles, plus save on fuel costs. I don't know how many times I've seen a single government worker in a vehicle.

Pressure?
De government don' need no steenking pressure man.
De government laugh at your pressure man.

While pressure won't mean much, building to requirements and price will.

Governments (usually) choose according to the lowest bid on the design that best fits their need.

Here's a thought... Will the public sector unions care about this vehicle being built in a non-union shop?

 

[WilliamH]

I got two items from Jerome the last time I was face to face with him.
1)At the moment, yes they need the loan. 2)Each of these recent advancements have made the ATVM loan more accessible.

So I would guess the A+ put them in the position of better access to all funding for two reasons. They can complete their proof of safety and their qualification threshold of 75mpg, plus exhibit the viability of the company to proceed to more completions.

Never before had EM admitted that 'need'. I think it's because they now are reasonably secure Em will get the loan. Either way, I think need in this case is contextual. It was about making a 2016 production startup. EM can still attempt to acquire the amount other ways, and at some point in time their position could reach the point where a combination of commercial lending and public financing could yet close the gap. IMHO, it's just a long shot to use that method and finish in the desired time-frame.

That silly magazine article is exploiting 'need' to justify their full stance, i.e. as they say, "The odds of starting a successful new car company are quite small, and Elio’s unusual vehicle complicates matter further.". Which is true only from a gross historical perspective, but from a current tactical perspective the unusual features of the are exactly what is qualifying the car for the loan. These features are what make the car of use. From a strategic perspective the features are what is enabling it's disruptive marketing opportunity. So to jump on the 'quite small' band wagon, is frankly, un-informed in current context. They will be kicked in the butt when Elio produces day-1 product.

I really should add; Look at it this way, if they had the funding, what is the likely hood of a successful sales year? In the past that has always been an unknown for most start-ups. EM is one of the few with fairly solid proof this will fly. That is exactly what the investment, lending and government agencies need to hear, second only to proof of the performance specs of the car and purchase price.

I think we should all keep in mind that when looking at these passive / aggressive stories an important factor is the source. In this case the last line. ...."This story originally appeared on Green Car Reports."....
And let's face it, the Green faction does not like ICE cars. No matter how efficient.
Even some of our normally rational friends on here can't seem to resist going negative from time to time as their Battery Powered Vehicle (BPV) fixation overcomes practicality.

 

[Elio Amazed]

I think we should all keep in mind that when looking at these passive / aggressive stories an important factor is the source. In this case the last line. ...."This story originally appeared on Green Car Reports."....
And let's face it, the Green faction does not like ICE cars. No matter how efficient.
Even some of our normally rational friends on here can't seem to resist going negative from time to time as their Battery Powered Vehicle (BPV) fixation overcomes practicality.

 

[floydv]

Pressure?
De government don' need no steenking pressure man.
De government laugh at your pressure man.

While pressure won't mean much, building to requirements and price will.

Governments (usually) choose according to the lowest bid on the design that best fits their need.

Here's a thought... Will the public sector unions care about this vehicle being built in a non-union shop?

Government purchasers are, by their nature, very conservative. In other words, it might make sense to make fleet purchases of Elios to replace similar vehicles (like three-wheeled Cushmans used for parking enforcement). But it's a much different story when replacing a fleet of light-duty vehicles in a fleet intended for regular government travel. The potential fuel and initial capital cost savings notwithstanding, I just can't see a government fleet purchaser making the decision to buy a bunch of Elios until EM can demonstrate conclusively that the Elio provides the equivalent safety protection as the four-wheeled vehicles in a government fleet that are intended to be replaced. Just imagine the potential liability and increased insurance costs (assuming the government's insurer will even cover the replacements) the first time some government worker gets into an accident in an Elio, irrespective of fault.

 

[Ekh]

Here's a thought... Will the public sector unions care about this vehicle being built in a non-union shop?

At some point they may care ... probably sooner than later. But unions, especially automotive unions, aren't in a position of strength at the moment. So they may care, but can they organize and win a union vote? I don't think it's Paul's number one concern.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Government purchasers are, by their nature, very conservative. In other words, it might make sense to make fleet purchases of Elios to replace similar vehicles (like three-wheeled Cushmans used for parking enforcement). But it's a much different story when replacing a fleet of light-duty vehicles in a fleet intended for regular government travel. The potential fuel and initial capital cost savings notwithstanding, I just can't see a government fleet purchaser making the decision to buy a bunch of Elios until EM can demonstrate conclusively that the Elio provides the equivalent safety protection as the four-wheeled vehicles in a government fleet that are intended to be replaced. Just imagine the potential liability and increased insurance costs (assuming the government's insurer will even cover the replacements) the first time some government worker gets into an accident in an Elio, irrespective of fault.

Exactly.
Safety being one of their first requirements.

 

[Ekh]

Exactly.
Safety being one of thier first requirements.

I betcha state and city governments, especially small ones, will lap it up. Which is not to discount the relevance of safety to purchasing, but to suggest that in government, especially local government, it's always, always, about the money.

 

[Elio Amazed]

The USPS took bids to replace the entire fleet this past spring.
It's an interesting read. Click on the picture.

 

[Rickb]

I got two items from Jerome the last time I was face to face with him.
1)At the moment, yes they need the loan. 2)Each of these recent advancements have made the ATVM loan more accessible.

So I would guess the A+ put them in the position of better access to all funding for two reasons. They can complete their proof of safety and their qualification threshold of 75mpg, plus exhibit the viability of the company to proceed to more completions.

Never before had EM admitted that 'need'. I think it's because they now are reasonably secure Em will get the loan. Either way, I think need in this case is contextual. It was about making a 2016 production startup. EM can still attempt to acquire the amount other ways, and at some point in time their position could reach the point where a combination of commercial lending and public financing could yet close the gap. IMHO, it's just a long shot to use that method and finish in the desired time-frame.

That silly magazine article is exploiting 'need' to justify their full stance, i.e. as they say, "The odds of starting a successful new car company are quite small, and Elio’s unusual vehicle complicates matter further.". Which is true only from a gross historical perspective, but from a current tactical perspective the unusual features of the are exactly what is qualifying the car for the loan. These features are what make the car of use. From a strategic perspective the features are what is enabling it's disruptive marketing opportunity. So to jump on the 'quite small' band wagon, is frankly, un-informed in current context. They will be kicked in the butt when Elio produces day-1 product.

I really should add; Look at it this way, if they had the funding, what is the likely hood of a successful sales year? In the past that has always been an unknown for most start-ups. EM is one of the few with fairly solid proof this will fly. That is exactly what the investment, lending and government agencies need to hear, second only to proof of the performance specs of the car and purchase price.

"Fairly solid proof that this will fly" doesn't indicate EM's future ability to repay the ATVM loan. Would EM issue you an Elio Gas Credit Card if you were behind on your house payment, had mountains of debt, were facing contract default penalties, and had all your other credit cards charged to the limit, but may be getting a higher paying job soon. I don't think you would qualify for the loan or should. Just because we gave EM money with no guarantees of a vehicle delivered or investment value of our EM Stock doesn't mean the government will or should.

I'm not counting on the DOE ATVM to be approved and don't think the loan should be necessary for EM to succeed. Perhaps it's time to accept the private venture capital EM mentioned some time ago to meet the Q4 2016 production schedule.

Complete/test/ and verify performance claims of the P5, Build/Test the E's, new engines built, tool the plant, hire and train employees, and start production with private venture funding, get some of the $300 Million in pre-sales revenue streaming in providing proof that it is flying (at least off the ground), and use the ATVM Loan to scale up production if needed. My opinion only and not trying to sell it.

 

[Jeff Porter]

I completely agree with you on this, and your explanation is much more thorough than mine. My point was only to say that the Elio does not, and under the current testing standards cannot, have a 5-star safety rating.

Understood Rob, and a good point.

However, one problem with saying "the Elio does not and cannot have a 5-star safety rating", is that many people will read that and think the Elio is not safe. No 5-star rating = unsafe, in their minds.

It would be helpful from a PR perspective to say "the Elio does not and cannot have a 5-star safety rating, but it will be very safe since it has a roll cage, ABS, traction control, stability control, safety belts, etc."

Just my 2 cents.