New Engine Unveiling And Testing

[Nate_tx]

. If $6800 was closer to $10-12k and lets assume a tiny profit margin car companies make of 4-8% (on a good year) then you double that at say the $12k pricepoint mark. Investors are looking at a margin thats a slower burn vs bigger ticket items and cars..

My point here is this - outside investers are going to drive the cost up - a goverment backed loan will keep it closer to the mark - I expect to pay 9-10k for my elio frankly - I am fine with that. Anything below that will be a wonderful surprise.

 

[eddie66]

. If $6800 was closer to $10-12k and lets assume a tiny profit margin car companies make of 4-8% (on a good year) then you double that at say the $12k pricepoint mark. Investors are looking at a margin thats a slower burn vs bigger ticket items and cars..

My point here is this - outside investers are going to drive the cost up - a goverment backed loan will keep it closer to the mark - I expect to pay 9-10k for my elio frankly - I am fine with that. Anything below that will be a wonderful surprise.

That under ten thousand figure seem to come up more often recently, usually when the Elio is introduce, but it always comes back to the $6800 price in the conversation. I think if you brought the base price, without option, to $10,000, most people would opt for a higher capacity, lower milage, economy car. I expect to pay maybe, $7500 on top of the $1000 I already put down,including my $500 bonus, for auto trans., and maybe an upgraded radio.
That would put me in the $9000 range before tax and delivery charges.
http://www.wearecentralpa.com/story...es-to-the-gallon/20239/In8FNxUQcESzYCvRPm7SOQ

 

[WilliamH]

The excess equipment sale was to generate enough funds to pay off Elio's initial loan for the equipment purchase and net the anticipated $40 million to start the hiring process for the 1500 jobs. It seems now they will be using much of the next round of loan money for those financial commitments.
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Sounds like your talking about the minutes from the 2013 Caddo Parish Commissioners meeting and Stephanie Lynch again?

 

[WilliamH]

. If $6800 was closer to $10-12k and lets assume a tiny profit margin car companies make of 4-8% (on a good year) then you double that at say the $12k pricepoint mark. Investors are looking at a margin thats a slower burn vs bigger ticket items and cars..

My point here is this - outside investers are going to drive the cost up - a goverment backed loan will keep it closer to the mark - I expect to pay 9-10k for my elio frankly - I am fine with that. Anything below that will be a wonderful surprise.

Outside investors will also say (hypothetically) Lets put in a bigger engine, and power steering and power seats and make more things standard which will defeat the low starting price. That should pretty much kill the car at your $12K price point.

 

[Rickb]

Sounds like your talking about the minutes from the 2013 Caddo Parish Commissioners meeting and Stephanie Lynch again?

Nope. The Caddo Parrish May 2014 Minutes regarding EM financials and equipment sales. My reply was a response that indicated the funding significance of equipment sales that would have paid off some loans and have helped move the Elio closer to production by helping to prevent this last delay announcement and required extension granted by Caddo Commissioners. The equipment obviously wasn't sold to "the Big Guys". Nothing to do with Ms. Lynch unless she was a potential buyer. She was only asking about EM's available funding sources. It's good to remind people the equipment is still an available funding source and I'm hoping it sells generating the $40 Million net gain for EM.

 

[Rickb]

Outside investors will also say (hypothetically) Lets put in a bigger engine, and power steering and power seats and make more things standard which will defeat the low starting price. That should pretty much kill the car at your $12K price point.

Thankfully, that investor mentality would not be interested in Elio Motors. Although, all of the items you mention could be on the ever growing options list. Paul Elio isn't even interested in a $10K Elio.

 

[Reid3400]

One of the funny things is - well - how not so advanced the Tesla Lithium battery itself really is. A lot of people clammering they have some sort of secret lithium sauce. LOL not so much - the the p85 (or p60 I forget) has 1,750 - series 1850 lithium batteries into the floor frame. The same ones in many of your devices (like my E-cig vape device).and its just a bit larger than a AA Alkaline battery. The secret is in the "Management" of the charging and discharging of those batts and the system that liquid cools or heats them. Thats the magic really its not they have some magic lithium battery composition its innovation in the management of those batteries.

This information btw wasn't on the Tesla site - it slipped out on a Jay Leno test drive of the Tesla on youtube with one of the engineers.

Without a Battery Management System, I have found that after less than 10 discharge/charge cycles, the cells get out of sync. If you keep repeating the cycle, without balancing all the cells, you will kill the low ones. Once a 3.25V cell drops below 2.25V it seems to have permanently altered the chemicals? When you charge a series string, the charger waits to see the total voltage and then shuts off. With 20 cells in a string, some get overcharged and theoretically damaged, while others don't get up to 25% charge. Then on discharge the undercharged ones, quickly go flat. With a BMS they all get charged and discharged evenly to 0.01V. I have found I don't need to carry the BMS on the scoot and bikes, just use it when charging and all the cells stay happy within 0.03V. One fellow with 40 X 100A cells has been consistently overcharging his e-truck 2 years to 4.25V just before leaving for work. Theoretically his cells should have been killed after a few cycles of this abuse. He needs to do this to get to his job and back. Only one of his cells has failed and it failed on the first few cycles. So theory is one thing, field experience is quite different. These are LiFePO4, Lithium Iron Phosphate, different chemistry than TESLA. No one really seems to know what is going on with Lithium batter packs. I have a friend who has taken apart 1000's of "dead" battery packs from hand tools. @95% of the time it is the first cell in the string which fails. 5% of the time it is the second cell. No one seems to have a rational explanation for this.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Since we only know of two accessory providers, the internet/camera thing company (someone close to the action mentioned north of 2k with all the whistles and bells), the other company -body panels, no prices that I've seen, so it's really hard to judge. We have just an "idea"- nothing decided about shipping costs ( I hope the 500 incentive will cover that) then everything else is up for grabs- for me, OTD @ 12k-14 would be my hope, with automatic, sunroof, rear "window grill" (specifically so I need not explain the absence of a rear window), motorcycle fenders, some upgrade interior lights, rear camera, and no need for the total electronics, very important- locking hood rings!! and........which will, be less than each of my last 4 bikes!! AND will pay a premium for YELLOW!!!
way before we go through the check-list of goodies we need the E to put all this in/on!! It will be too cool to get the email that (mentioned lead in time 4-6 weeks?)) lists our options and planned delivery date. Within 24 hrs of that notice I order my one way fly- in ticket!

 

[Ty]

. If $6800 was closer to $10-12k and lets assume a tiny profit margin car companies make of 4-8% (on a good year) then you double that at say the $12k pricepoint mark. Investors are looking at a margin thats a slower burn vs bigger ticket items and cars..

My point here is this - outside investers are going to drive the cost up - a goverment backed loan will keep it closer to the mark - I expect to pay 9-10k for my elio frankly - I am fine with that. Anything below that will be a wonderful surprise.

Elio has said they had $1,000 profit built into each car. That's 14.7% profit at $6,800 and actually not that bad. IF the Federal government allows the Elio to qualify for emission credits, Elio could earn 250,000 credits per year if they produce 250,000 cars. Elio is required to pay 1% of those to the government... 250,000 - 2,500 = 247,500 credits left. They can sell those for up to $5,000 per credit... Suddenly, that $6,800 Elio has earned $6,000 in profit... IF they can sell emissions credits... Okay, the Math isn't quite right but Tesla makes up to $10,000 in credits for each vehicle they sell.


“The Zero Emission Vehicle regulation is a requirement that’s placed on the large auto makers to make and sell zero emission vehicles,” said Ana Lisa Bevan, with the California Air Resources Board. The board requires auto makers to turn in a certain number of credits per year.
Companies earn those credits by making and selling zero emission vehicles.
“So if a manufacturer has sales in California of, let’s say, 100,000 vehicles, and the obligation is credits equal to one percent of their sales, they have to come up with 1,000 credits,” Bevan said.
If a company comes up short, it has to pay a penalty of up to $5,000 per credit. Or it can buy credits from a company like Tesla, which happens to earn a lot of credits on every car it makes. Tesla has sold enough credits to post its first profit.


http://www.marketplace.org/topics/sustainability/teslas-secret-success-selling-emissions-credits

 

[Nate_tx]

Elio has said they had $1,000 profit built into each car. That's 14.7% profit at $6,800 and actually not that bad. IF the Federal government allows the Elio to qualify for emission credits, Elio could earn 250,000 credits per year if they produce 250,000 cars. Elio is required to pay 1% of those to the government... 250,000 - 2,500 = 247,500 credits left. They can sell those for up to $5,000 per credit... Suddenly, that $6,800 Elio has earned $6,000 in profit... IF they can sell emissions credits... Okay, the Math isn't quite right but Tesla makes up to $10,000 in credits for each vehicle they sell.
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/sustainability/teslas-secret-success-selling-emissions-credits

Nice knowledge bomb here for me. I appreciate the info.. Good stuff...