Arcimoto

[Rickb]

Yes. The issue is, what is the demand for the product. It's a play toy. Not an everyday vehicle. There are people that will use them everyday and force the issue for things like, "You don't need doors" but as we all know, many want them no matter what the handful say. Even with the supply chain issues and covid, the company can make more they they can sell. They need demand that can support the 50K they will build in 2025. Unless they can get there and produce the revenue, then they will continue to struggle and just might run out of cash. If they can rack up the orders, they can get the investment to make sure they can go from loss to profit. Not enough orders means they will have to raise the price once again. Not lower it like they want to do. Fun doesn't pay the bills.

Obviously we have varied opinions regarding what the FUV Actually is…….daily commuter or toy. However, the FUV is no more a toy than any other motorcycle that owners use, year around or seasonally, as their primary vehicle It’s safer, drier, driver comfort, and appeals to a wider range of market demographics, The current owners in warm year around climates say they use their FUVs as their everyday commuter, don’t want doors, and prefer the three wheeler motorcycle open air ride, year around. Future FUV owner wannabes, like myself, living in cold climates want/need enclosure so it can be a year around everyday commuter and not have to store it over the winter months. Minimal or high enough demand to warrant productIon. Current owners say they have people asking questions and wanting to know where they can buy one. I had a similar experience during my test drive. Some owners have printed FUV info flyers to handout to save time in answering questions. Sounds like a lot of interest.

The Vanderhall, in my opinion, is more of a performance based sports ‘autocycle‘ platform vehicle, hand built, niche market, weekend driver, expensive, rich man’s toy. I like the Vanderhall model lineup and applaud the fact they are building vehicles and recently able to pay down debt.

 

[RSchneider]

Obviously we have varied opinions regarding what the FUV Actually is…….daily commuter or toy. However, the FUV is no more a toy than any other motorcycle that owners use, year around or seasonally, as their primary vehicle It’s safer, drier, driver comfort, and appeals to a wider range of market demographics, The current owners in warm year around climates say they use their FUVs as their everyday commuter, don’t want doors, and prefer the three wheeler motorcycle open air ride, year around. Future FUV owner wannabes, like myself, living in cold climates want/need enclosure so it can be a year around everyday commuter and not have to store it over the winter months. Minimal or high enough demand to warrant productIon. Current owners say they have people asking questions and wanting to know where they can buy one. I had a similar experience during my test drive. Some owners have printed FUV info flyers to handout to save time in answering questions. Sounds like a lot of interest.

The Vanderhall, in my opinion, is more of a performance based sports ‘autocycle‘ platform vehicle, hand built, niche market, weekend driver, expensive, rich man’s toy. I like the Vanderhall model lineup and applaud the fact they are building vehicles and recently able to pay down debt.

Remember, interest is one thing, actual sales is another. What I find is that when you get into the details, then the interest becomes less when it comes to a FUV. Limited sales/service area, the price, the door situation, charging and then the range. It's obvious by the company numbers, they can make more than they can sell. Plus, I hope they found a way to where they will not run out of cash and have to shut down production again or go through another round of layoffs.

This is like with Elio. The idea of them just starting production, then when you go out and drive one around, it will equate to instant sales. Anything unique will draw attention. FUV or Elio. Even a Vanderhall gets attention. Go drive one and you'll see. I bet I had a dozen people asked me about it. Does it mean they will get a huge amount of sales with that? I doubt it. It's a fair weather vehicle for a niche market. It's that the Vanderhall appeals to the rich, FUV, to the poor. Each has a market. It's that I'd rather appeal to the rich as they got the money to spend for flashy things (that was the Tesla model). The poor do not and become very picky because they need their product to fit 100% of their needs at a super low price point (the reason why the poor do not own Teslas). Since the FUV is missing those doors, many will never buy one and then choose a car instead. Once they find out that it'll never get doors until FUV 2.0 at some unknown date, the interest is much lower.

I look at it this way for where I live. I could use the FUV from April to October at best. If it rains, no way. That limits me to less than half a year. That means, I only would buy one right now because it's a toy. I could care less what some person does in FL or southern, CA. I live in an area with 4 seasons, thus I need things like doors and full HVAC. Since the FUV does not have them, it's out of the question. If it was $10K, I might then think about it because that would be cheap enough to justify the lack of things it was planned to have.

My old BMW Z4 was a SFUV. It was super fun to drive, had a top I could put up. Full HVAC and doors. It also had a trunk. I just needed snow tires on it for the winter but if it was over 5", I had to park it. It would high center itself. I bet people would never consider an Z4 a SFUV. Just a rich mans play toy, yet I proved them wrong. It was a rich mans SFUV that could be used in all seasons. Plus my SFUV was 2ft shorter than the e46 330 BMW I almost bought. So I was saving space on the freeway. It was right sized at the time. I only did what about 1% of Z4 owners did. 99% just parked them for half a year.

 

[Rickb]

Should be a market for a FUV 3 wheeler motorcycle open, 1/2 doors, or full doors. Some owners have created there own full door option. The FUV is far more fun to drive than any car I’ve driven.

 

[Mark BEX]

If it was $10K, I might then think about it because that would be cheap enough to justify the lack of things it was planned to have.

That puts you in the minority, and is why a Toyota Corolla (whatever econobox) today comes with the works, and a long way away from the 'rubber mats and AM radio' cheap car it once was.

I agree the FUV is a $9,990 vehicle as it stands now.

 

[RSchneider]

Should be a market for a FUV 3 wheeler motorcycle open, 1/2 doors, or full doors. Some owners have created there own full door option. The FUV is far more fun to drive than any car I’ve driven.

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So the aftermarket created full doors yet the CEO of Arcimoto says they need to do a redesign of the chassis? That confirms that the company spent money on side projects and not on the full doors. Where do you buy these full doors and what's the cost? That's a deal changer for many.

 

[RSchneider]

That puts you in the minority, and is why a Toyota Corolla (whatever econobox) today comes with the works, and a long way away from the 'rubber mats and AM radio' cheap car it once was.

I agree the FUV is a $9,990 vehicle as it stands now.

I agree. The cheapest things here in the US come with lots of bells and whistles. Thus people use that as the benchmark for what they want to buy. Price point does play into the factor because if you make something cheap enough, you can accept less. Thus the reason why back in the day, they made a plain Jane VW Beetle. It didn't have a radio. That was up to you to install if you want one. I know, my uncle has a 1971 plain jane beetle. Still has the blank off plate for the radio.

 

[Rickb]

Arcimoto is catering to the affordable everyday EV market demographic, not cheap. Many of the current owners are choosing custom options, that bump the price to $25K. Still cheaper than a Harley Trike. The FUV’s target MSRP was $11,900 based on production scale and scaled production does not appear to be happening anytime soon. It could be the lack interest, market demand, or the bugs and fixes need to be worked out before production scale happens. For now the FUV is price competitive to other three wheeler motorcycles (Spyder, Slingshot, Vanderhall) on the market. I am eagerly waiting to see the target under $10K BEX production model, shipping costs, and servicing Dealer network. It was the same for the $6800 Elio, the under $10K Sondors, and the $11, 900 FUV. Opinions vary on a vehicles worth, but only the FUV is currently in production and may or may not achieve their target pricing.

 

[RSchneider]

Arcimoto is catering to the affordable everyday EV market demographic, not cheap. Many of the current owners are choosing custom options, that bump the price to $25K. Still cheaper than a Harley Trike. The FUV’s target MSRP was $11,900 based on production scale and scaled production does not appear to be happening anytime soon. It could be the lack interest, market demand, or the bugs and fixes need to be worked out before production scale happens. For now the FUV is price competitive to other three wheeler motorcycles (Spyder, Slingshot, Vanderhall) on the market. I am eagerly waiting to see the target under $10K BEX production model, shipping costs, and servicing Dealer network. It was the same for the $6800 Elio, the under $10K Sondors, and the $11, 900 FUV. Opinions vary on a vehicles worth, but only the FUV is currently in production and may or may not achieve their target pricing.

So, at $25K, it's affordable? Why not just buy something else for that price? We know that the Elio was never going to sell at that price and then Sondors was another pie in the sky idea that the CEO figured it out pretty quick, thus ditched the project. Even Vanderhall stopped making their EV. The overall downfall is that in the next year, other companies will make EV's that will be in the Bolt price point. All Arcimoto has going for it is that they are shorter and you need to accept that the product will be without the creature comforts that people accept. Maybe the motorcycle market will pick up on the FUV but as we can all see from their sales numbers, it's small.

Also, I need to see the website on the full doors for the FUV. I believe this will be a gamechanger for them as having that, will please people like me that's watching the snow coming down around me right now and there are 30 mph winds.

 

[Rickb]

So, at $25K, it's affordable? Why not just buy something else for that price? We know that the Elio was never going to sell at that price and then Sondors was another pie in the sky idea that the CEO figured it out pretty quick, thus ditched the project. Even Vanderhall stopped making their EV. The overall downfall is that in the next year, other companies will make EV's that will be in the Bolt price point. All Arcimoto has going for it is that they are shorter and you need to accept that the product will be without the creature comforts that people accept. Maybe the motorcycle market will pick up on the FUV but as we can all see from their sales numbers, it's small.

Also, I need to see the website on the full doors for the FUV. I believe this will be a gamechanger for them as having that, will please people like me that's watching the snow coming down around me right now and there are 30 mph winds.

It’s optioned out @ $25K. Did I say it was affordable for alL, but hopefully affordable to those choosing the options. The owners driving their FUV for daily commutes state that wind and rain are a non-issue (for them) beyond slightly damp feet during heavy rains and with the 1/2 doors that’s a non-issue. Certainly dry compared to other motorcycles and most likely the Vanderhall. They prefer the open cabin. I would not consider it without the full enclosure option. There is a typical motorcycle market demographic for the current FUV platform. There is no advertising the product at this point, only word of mouth, social media, and referals. Bikers expect creature comforts? Wear a rain suit! You are comparing the FUV to a car. It is what it is, an open air MC and may evolve to full enclosure over time. Much to late for me. NOTE: Thousands of non-refundable reservationists believed in Elio and some still do.

 

[Mark BEX]

Maybe the motorcycle market will pick up on the FUV

Nope.

People who buy motorcycle trikes, both delta and reverse trikes, are more likely to do large miles on their individual jaunts, be it weekend trips or occasional touring rides with groups. When they see "100 miles range", it will be end of story.

I really came close to developing a Lotus 7 type EV a few years back, but for those exact reasons, dropped the idea as it was an exponential loss in that the more range I added, the heavier it became, and the further it got removed from being a lightweight minimal sports car.