Arcimoto

[Rickb]

Yep, There are a few serious biker all in early adopter FUV owners and like it. Every single FUV sales generates a new era of biker that have never considered purchasing a motorcycle before. A couple of them don’t even know it’s a motorcycle. Also, keeps the old geezer biker demographic in the saddle for shorter daily rides…….old story with a new beginning. The FUV could be a supplement to the long range Bike. Interesting to be critical of the FUV or any vehicle without a test drive experience.

 

[RSchneider]

Also, if you ever owned a Jeep and took the doors off, then drove it in the rain, you still get wet. When that other guy going the other way hits a puddle and it splashes you from the side, you get wet. Like here yesterday, rain and 30mph winds. Thus getting wet. Plus, many do not want to put on a full wet kit just to drive to the grocery store. Since the FUV sits lower, it would be more susceptible to those puddles that others drive through. As for the video, that was a perfect case scenario, not real world.

Since full doors are now made, we need to know where to buy them. It solves every problem and thus sales will take off. Just look at what I had years ago on my Jeep. It came with half doors and you just popped them in the top of the door. Was not a perfect seal but pretty darn good. Then when driving, you could zip the window down. At least you could keep it up and still operate the door. Plus, just for $130/pr, that's a great price. For a FUV, those would be $260.

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[RSchneider]

Interesting to be critical of the FUV or any vehicle without a test drive experience.

Interesting to be critical of the Vanderhall or any vehicle without a test drive experience.

 

[Rickb]

Interesting to be critical of the Vanderhall or any vehicle without a test drive experience.

I’m not critical of the Vanderhall or their business model. I‘ve mentioned a number of times that I like the styling, fit and finish, and respect that they crossed the certified production model finish line. However, I have personal ingress egress issues with low to the ground sedans or sports cars. I‘m physically unable to test drive the Vanderhall. I’ve been driving SUVs for 15 years and the FUV platform is of similar height. I can afford them both, have space in my garage, but neither the FUV or the Vanderhall meet my personal needs. However, based on my FUV test drive experience it did check all the boxes, except full enclosure: easy ingress/ingress, comfortable sitting position, quick, stabile, performance and handling of a sports car, and safer than a typical motorcycle.

 

[RSchneider]

I‘m physically unable to test drive the Vanderhall

Have you tried with the actual product? Maybe it is not as bad as you think.

I'd love to test drive a FUV but since they have nowhere close to me to drive one, then I don;t want to spend $1K on an airline ticket, then lodging just to test drive one. They sell in my state and surrounding ones but I did ask them and the only response I got was, "Sign up for our newsletter for the latest info." That's not what I was looking for as it sounded like a BOT responded (it even came back within two minutes). In addition to that, I'm already signed up on their newsletter. For the most fun vehicle ever, you'd think they would be a bit better at sales in their markets. Especially with the full doors that are now offered by the aftermarket (which I can't find contact info for that company). If anyone else can, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Rickb]

Have you tried with the actual product? Maybe it is not as bad as you think.

I'd love to test drive a FUV but since they have nowhere close to me to drive one, then I don;t want to spend $1K on an airline ticket, then lodging just to test drive one. They sell in my state and surrounding ones but I did ask them and the only response I got was, "Sign up for our newsletter for the latest info." That's not what I was looking for as it sounded like a BOT responded (it even came back within two minutes). In addition to that, I'm already signed up on their newsletter. For the most fun vehicle ever, you'd think they would be a bit better at sales in their markets. Especially with the full doors that are now offered by the aftermarket (which I can't find contact info for that company). If anyone else can, I'd appreciate it.

It’s as bad as I think, maybe worse. Comparing the 2 vehicles side by side, the FUV sits at the same height as my SUV and my FUV test drive verifies driver comfort. The Vanderhall‘s seat is at about the same height as the FUV’s floor board. What do you think?

 

[Rickb]

The EM Solo is dead, Arcimoto’s progress appears stalled, and Vanderhall is focused on a new 4 wheeler concept. I’m beginning to think there is little market demand for three wheeler commuter vehicles (autocycles) beyond the current motorcycle demographic.

 

[RSchneider]

The EM Solo is dead, Arcimoto’s progress appears stalled, and Vanderhall is focused on a new 4 wheeler concept. I’m beginning to think there is little market demand for three wheeler commuter vehicles (autocycles) beyond the current motorcycle demographic.

Vanderhall is just going after the side by side offroad market. Those other vehicles that they sell at Powersports Dealers. Here in PA, they have tons of trails up in Potter county where people off road all of the time. I know that in places like Moab, they let you drive them on the street. I think in Moab, they would like the Brawley as it would be quiet as opposed to the endless line of over the top loud, side by sides.

I like that they made one product, got it into production, set up a dealer network and then used those profits to develop the next product. I like when businesses do that, as it shows that being a bit concervative in your expectations, allows you to grow accordingly. Wish FUV was more conservative in the volume that they could sell vs the manufacturing capability. Then it might explain the 4 day work weeks and shutting down for a month to sell off excess inventory.

 

[Rickb]

Vanderhall is just going after the side by side offroad market. Those other vehicles that they sell at Powersports Dealers. Here in PA, they have tons of trails up in Potter county where people off road all of the time. I know that in places like Moab, they let you drive them on the street. I think in Moab, they would like the Brawley as it would be quiet as opposed to the endless line of over the top loud, side by sides.

I like that they made one product, got it into production, set up a dealer network and then used those profits to develop the next product. I like when businesses do that, as it shows that being a bit concervative in your expectations, allows you to grow accordingly. Wish FUV was more conservative in the volume that they could sell vs the manufacturing capability. Then it might explain the 4 day work weeks and shutting down for a month to sell off excess inventory.

Might explain this or that….might be right or wrong, but who knows? Vanderhall‘s business model wasn’t mass production.. Arcimoto was initially conservative with private funding right up to the fully certified FUV production Model. What ‘might explain‘ it is they geared up for mass production by acquiring the 250,000sf manufacturing plant, hired 250+- employees to crank out FUVs, only to discover the mass market for a $15-25K three wheeler commuter really wasn’t there and not worth spending money on full enclosure.

 

[RSchneider]

Might explain this or that….might be right or wrong, but who knows? Vanderhall‘s business model wasn’t mass production.. Arcimoto was initially conservative with private funding right up to the fully certified FUV production Model. What ‘might explain‘ it is they geared up for mass production by acquiring the 250,000sf manufacturing plant, hired 250+- employees to crank out FUVs, only to discover the mass market for a $15-25K three wheeler commuter really wasn’t there and not worth spending money on full enclosure.

That's why you do market research. You discover the amount you need to build and then ramp up manufacturing to that point. If the demand outpaces the manufacturing, then you are in the best scenario ever. It makes it easy to ask for more money from the public. Doing the other way around, can become a real issue. Arcimoto is in that scenario right now. Maybe if they woyld have not spent all of that money on buying the plant, doing oddball projects and buying tilting motorworks, they would have a cushion of cash to make up for the startup of manufacturing and not be in the predicament they are in now.

Now, they will hopefully be able to have enough cash on hand to make the product and expand their sales area. If not, they will have to shut down once again. No matter how fun the vehicle is and how many leaflets customers give to others, if you can't pay the bills the the employees will not show up, utilities will be turned off and suppliers will not send you parts.

Also, Vanderhall has a factory 4X the size of Arcimoto. They must have something in mind for expansion. Due to being privately funded, they can do whatever they want.