Arcimoto

[3wheelin]

The EM Solo is dead, Arcimoto’s progress appears stalled, and Vanderhall is focused on a new 4 wheeler concept. I’m beginning to think there is little market demand for three wheeler commuter vehicles (autocycles) beyond the current motorcycle demographic.

I think ELIO's 65k reservations

That's why you do market research. You discover the amount you need to build and then ramp up manufacturing to that point. If the demand outpaces the manufacturing, then you are in the best scenario ever. It makes it easy to ask for more money from the public. Doing the other way around, can become a real issue. Arcimoto is in that scenario right now. Maybe if they woyld have not spent all of that money on buying the plant, doing oddball projects and buying tilting motorworks, they would have a cushion of cash to make up for the startup of manufacturing and not be in the predicament they are in now.

Now, they will hopefully be able to have enough cash on hand to make the product and expand their sales area. If not, they will have to shut down once again. No matter how fun the vehicle is and how many leaflets customers give to others, if you can't pay the bills the the employees will not show up, utilities will be turned off and suppliers will not send you parts.

Also, Vanderhall has a factory 4X the size of Arcimoto. They must have something in mind for ex'pansion. Due to being privately funded, they can do whatever they want.

'No matter how fun the vehicle is......'
.....but they still earned the fun factor with their FUV....no matter what! Didn't you see the smiles from their owners? That's right you haven't got a clue....maybe you should test drive it.

 

[Rickb]

That's why you do market research. You discover the amount you need to build and then ramp up manufacturing to that point. If the demand outpaces the manufacturing, then you are in the best scenario ever. It makes it easy to ask for more money from the public. Doing the other way around, can become a real issue. Arcimoto is in that scenario right now. Maybe if they woyld have not spent all of that money on buying the plant, doing oddball projects and buying tilting motorworks, they would have a cushion of cash to make up for the startup of manufacturing and not be in the predicament they are in now.

Now, they will hopefully be able to have enough cash on hand to make the product and expand their sales area. If not, they will have to shut down once again. No matter how fun the vehicle is and how many leaflets customers give to others, if you can't pay the bills the the employees will not show up, utilities will be turned off and suppliers will not send you parts.

Also, Vanderhall has a factory 4X the size of Arcimoto. They must have something in mind for expansion. Due to being privately funded, they can do whatever they want.

You ass.u.me they didn’t do market research throughout their 2008-2019 production start? I ass.u.med they did. My lesson learned is I‘ll make the decision to purchase a new startup‘s three wheeler after a test drive to verify I want to buy it while standing in a local dealership with sales, service, and parts departments. The assumption of success……..better odds. Nimbus, BEX, Myers, Arcimoto, ElectraMecannica, Aptera unlikely candidates for local dealerships to adequately cover customer needs in terms sales and service.

 

[RSchneider]

You ass.u.me they didn’t do market research throughout their 2008-2019 production start? I ass.u.med they did. My lesson learned is I‘ll make the decision to purchase a new startup‘s three wheeler after a test drive to verify I want to buy it while standing in a local dealership with sales, service, and parts departments. The assumption of success……..better odds. Nimbus, BEX, Myers, Arcimoto, ElectraMecannica, Aptera unlikely candidates for local dealerships to adequately cover customer needs in terms sales and service.

If they did, then the numbers for what they were told were way off. Seems to be an issue with the three wheeler market.

 

[3wheelin]

If they did, then the numbers for what they were told were way off. Seems to be an issue with the three wheeler market.

Nope, the market is definitely there proven by ELIO MOTORS. Somebody just have to come up with a likeable 3wheeler. BEX's ICE certainly checks some boxes!

 

[RSchneider]

Nope, the market is definitely there proven by ELIO MOTORS. Somebody just have to come up with a likeable 3wheeler. BEX's ICE certainly checks some boxes!

What are the numbers for Elio. As I see from their numbers, it took them 52 months to get 65K reservations. That comes out to an average of 15K per year. Yet (according to the company) they were expecting to sell 250k per year. As you can see, even the Elio numbers didn't work for Arcimto as they were expecting to sell 1K in 2022 yet made around 300 and shut down production as they needed to sell off existing inventory. This is a company that had been in production for 4 years. According to Mark F, 50K in 2025.

There is a market for three wheelers, just need a realistic number for that. All I see are inflated numbers.

 

[Rickb]

The initial market excitement for both the Elio and the FUV was based on their marketed target msrp. That price point simply isn’t possible for low volume rollout production numbers. The primary three wheeler market demand interest is <$10K, with local dealerships available for sales/service/parts. It’s not possible.………..$15-25K range is more realistic and that greatly reduces market demand.

 

[RSchneider]

Having a too low of a price will always get interest. Nimbus only costs $9800, thus people are excited. Elio was $6800 and people were excited. Arcimoto threw around $11,900 and people were excited. Solo was a good price yet they gave up on that. To get investment, you got to think big but institutional investors are smarter than many think. They know that having a super low price is not achievable. Thus the reason why many, fail to get the funding they want. Volume is not the answer either. As selling the same product for 50% more initially will not result in massive sales numbers as many will just wait until the price goes down, thus expecting people with stupid money will fund their cheap ride.

Better off going the route of Tesla. High end and thus a bigger profit margin for people who are rich. The poor can get around with a used Toyota Corolla, thus will not buy a three wheeler. Yet many of these three wheeler companies are going after the poor. So far they are not buying.

 

[3wheelin]

Having a too low of a price will always get interest. Nimbus only costs $9800, thus people are excited. Elio was $6800 and people were excited. Arcimoto threw around $11,900 and people were excited. Solo was a good price yet they gave up on that. To get investment, you got to think big but institutional investors are smarter than many think. They know that having a super low price is not achievable. Thus the reason why many, fail to get the funding they want. Volume is not the answer either. As selling the same product for 50% more initially will not result in massive sales numbers as many will just wait until the price goes down, thus expecting people with stupid money will fund their cheap ride.

Better off going the route of Tesla. High end and thus a bigger profit margin for people who are rich. The poor can get around with a used Toyota Corolla, thus will not buy a three wheeler. Yet many of these three wheeler companies are going after the poor. So far they are not buying.

Apples and oranges. Tesla and Corolla are 4wheelers. Vanderhall high end as it is, can't get enough rich people to buy it. I've got my money on Nimbus S.

 

[RSchneider]

Apples and oranges. Tesla and Corolla are 4wheelers. Vanderhall high end as it is, can't get enough rich people to buy it. I've got my money on Nimbus S.

I never realized that Vanderhall can't get enough rich people to buy them. Another three wheeler bites the dust. Since they are a private company, they never have to announce that they closed down. Thanks for getting me this information.

 

[3wheelin]

I never realized that Vanderhall can't get enough rich people to buy them. Another three wheeler bites the dust. Since they are a private company, they never have to announce that they closed down. Thanks for getting me this information.

Nope, I didn't say they closed down. Their website is still there last time I checked so they're still in business. I just have not seen a Vanderhall anywhere....or the Polaris Slingshot. It's not a common sight to see them in the streets of freeways.