RSchneider
Elio Addict
Even if that product after 4 years of production, costs 200% more than it's made for? That would be like a Pizza joint making a $2 pizza but to costs them $6 to make it.
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Arcimoto
- Thread starter ChuckP
- Start date
Better to compare Arcimoto’s production model start, their manufacturing costs, and profit or loss per vehicle sold to Tesla, Rivian, or Vanderhall.
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Vanderhall is still around so regardless of whether they're making money or not per unit, it's a success story. But at 40K +, consumers are smart enough to look elsewhere and spend that kind of money on a regular 4wheeler that are much safer. That's why we don't see a lot of them on the road because they ain't selling that many.
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RSchneider
Elio Addict
Arcimoto was to be selling a fully enclosed model and if you look at the SEC filings when they were asking for public money, that's what they were going to do (as you know, I have documented this before). Yet, they failed. They even were talking about an $11,900 model when they were asking for public money. I know many, even ones here that were hoping for a full door model and knowing that it might not be possible to do that, yet had hope. The CEO admitted that they need to change the design of the model just to accommodate that full hard shell enclosure.
As for the $30K Vanderhall I have rented, it was open top. It also got around 35 mpg and I figured it had usable 9 gallon tank. With that 9 gallons, that would be a 315 mile range. The recharge takes about 10 minutes. With no top and doors, it's a deal breaker for me. I like the range and recharge time though. I'm still waiting for the $11,900 Arcimoto version. If they were smart, they would just include a $3K removable door option and then another $1K extended battery of 130miles along with DC fast charging.
I see that the Vanderhall is only for the super rich. Spending $30K on a play toy is an issue, yet spending $20K on one is fine. Then, if they were losing money on it, I'd suspect that being privately funded, they would stop losing money after 7 years of production. Yet they don't. Maybe they just like throwing away money. We will never know unless they go public.
RSchneider
Elio Addict
Arcimoto is along the lines of a Polaris Ranger. Basic. The Tesla and Rivian are full blown crash tested vehicles that have been certified (Tesla has an excellent crash rating). Full hardshell cockpit, full HVAC and pretty much like a real car/pickup. Then they both can be bought in all 50 states and they have service centers along with mobile techs. Tesla is sold internationally and Rivian is testing the waters in Canada. Thing is, both of those products are even more expensive than the Vanderhall and I doubt anyone here is that rich to afford them. As we all know, the Vanderhall is to expensive at $30K. It was even too expensive when they started at $36K. Arcimoto is like the Vanderhall, a play toy. Not a real vehicle for everyday use. I know there are ones that will force the issue on everyday use but the white elephant in the room is we all know that honestly, they are not everyday transportation.
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Not comparing the vehicles , but the money that Tesla lost on every vehicle sold during their production start and the thousands of dollars Rivian is currently losing on every vehicle sold during their production start. Arcimoto is still in business and will either succeed or fail.
The FUV is the opposite of the Vanderhall. Most current FUV owners state that they find themselves choosing and prefer to drive their FUVs for everyday use. It’s a dally use Fun Utility Vehicle…….not a weekend toy. Having driven it, i would also choose it for everyday use with a full door option.
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RSchneider
Elio Addict
Yes. The issue is, what is the demand for the product. It's a play toy. Not an everyday vehicle. There are people that will use them everyday and force the issue for things like, "You don't need doors" but as we all know, many want them no matter what the handful say. Even with the supply chain issues and covid, the company can make more they they can sell. They need demand that can support the 50K they will build in 2025. Unless they can get there and produce the revenue, then they will continue to struggle and just might run out of cash. If they can rack up the orders, they can get the investment to make sure they can go from loss to profit. Not enough orders means they will have to raise the price once again. Not lower it like they want to do. Fun doesn't pay the bills.
good find! I'm betting on Nimbus One because it's compact, fully enclosed, has removable battery and the tilting tech is an awesome feature....if they can pull it off at their quoted $9,980 price tag.