Is There Any Physical And Substantial Progress Towards Production Of The Elio?

[TexasElio]

no doubt but they do reflect the progression/evolution of the product development .... numerous big hurdles have been overcome and some remain .... coming up with a production facility has been accomplished and the biggest hurdle of developing power plant capable of delivering performance capable of meeting the advertised goals is nearing completion .... producing real world test vehicles is on tap .... just because they aren't progressing at rate you or I would like, doesn't mean it can't or won't be done

You make lots of very logical & eloquent statements concerning the ongoing development of the Elio Vehicle...many points I can't disagree with!

But...I'm just waiting to see proof that a fleet of specification ready prototype is under construction...the clock is ticking...especially in the parish in Louisiana where the idle production facility is located...they're waiting for promised employment opportunities to materialize...

Additionally...you consider the Elio Vehicle as more akin to a motorcycle...but Mr Elio has as promised a 5 Star saftey rating...so I view the engineering complexity to be closer to an automobile...

 

[Neal]

A big problem I see with the opinion you have expressed is that you do not have a good understanding of what Elio Motors has been doing since 2008. As with many start-ups Elio Motors has not had a straight path to get here but instead has had many ups and downs and some dead ends along the way so while you are trying to look at Elio Motors as one continuously flowing ongoing project since 2008 what you really need to understand is that what you see today is not the same plan and vehicle which existed even five years ago.

The evolution of Elio Motors so far can be broken down into four stages:

1. Paul Elio uses $5 million of his own money and his engineering firm to develop his vehicle idea into the basis for the viable product. This includes building the P1 in 2008 and finding investors interested in backing the project.

2. Elio Motors production plan 1.0 began in 2009 with EM applying for funding via the original ATVM program. In 2010 the P2 was released and Elio Motors was working towards securing a closed GM plant in Pontiac, MI to build their vehicle then named "Trikke". After EM failed to win over community support for the project and were also forced to withdraw their ATVM loan application, when it became apparent that program was a dead end at that time due to issues with program, EM was forced to abandon this 1.0 plan.

3. Elio Motors transitional period from 2010-2012. This is the period Paul Elio has been quoted several times as saying was the most challenging of the entire project so far as EM had failed in their first attempt yet had to find funding to continue on. During this time the entire business plan was re-evaluated and the vehicle was re-engineered from the ground up including replacing engine design firm McLaren Performance/Linamar with IAV on a new engine designed specifically for this vehicle.

4. Elio Motors production plan 2.0 goes public in January of 2013 with the release of the completely re-engineered P3 prototype and plan to secure the former GM assembly plant Shreveport, LA. Reservations are accepted for the first time at this time. Work also continues on the new chassis design which eventually results in the P4 a year later in January 2014.
Due to outside interference in the process of leasing the plant, lawsuit and state officials involvement, Elio Motors suffers an eight month delay (Sept 2013-May 2014) in actually having a signed lease on the plant. This delay causes the funding deals EM had lined up to complete the vehicle development and enter production to collapse thus leaving them with limited funding which slows the vehicle development process considerably. However during this time gap Elio Motors is fortunate enough to have the undersecretary of the Department of Energy see and sit in the P4 and this initiates a series of conversations which leads to EM being invited to apply for the revamped ATVM loan program. Along with that EM comes up with a plan to pay for the engine and vehicle development program by selling off the unneeded equipment in the Shreveport plant. This plan allows EM to hopefully enter production without the need for additional outside investors however that option is still available as a backup plan.

Very nice breakdown. Thanks.

 

[CompTrex]

So I've heard a couple of reporters say something along the line of 'the interest peaked in 2013'. What does that mean?

 

[JEBar]

You make lots of very logical & eloquent statements concerning the ongoing development of the Elio Vehicle...many points I can't disagree with!

disagreement is fine .... in the end, one of two things will happen .... EM will bring their product into production or they won't .... the good news is recently published info indicates that time is rapidly approaching

But...I'm just waiting to see proof that a fleet of specification ready prototype is under construction...the clock is ticking...especially in the parish in Louisiana where the idle production facility is located...they're waiting for promised employment opportunities to materialize...

according to speaking with their tour folks (which I really wish you get the opportunity to do), that ain't gonna happen .... they have no plans to produce a fleet of prototypes .... a small number (probably very small number) will be produced, part of which will be expended in crash testing .... one or two will will be used tours during which test drives for people with registrations and later for folks considering making a reservation .... as IAV has apparently demonstrated in their design and build of the motor, much of the work that had to be done by trial and error in the past is now done with complex but apparently very accurate computer simulations .... being old school I find that hard to believe but that's clearly the case .... whatever prototypes they alot will be used will be to confirm

Additionally...you consider the Elio Vehicle as more akin to a motorcycle ... but Mr Elio has as promised a 5 Star saftey rating...so I view the engineering complexity to be closer to an automobile...

granted on engineering complexity .... it should be noted that things like meeting California EPA ratings, 5 star crash test ratings, and such are NOT mandated by government standard .... per federal law/regs, a vehicle with less than 4 wheels is a motorcycle .... those standards are much less numerous and cumbersome than their counterparts in the automotive industry .... at this point we can only hope that their (what has no doubt been) expensive design and process, is successful .... as we keep saying, time will tell

 

[JEBar]

So I've heard a couple of reporters say something along the line of 'the interest peaked in 2013'. What does that mean?

no clue ..

.. take a look at the chart in post 1287 at this link .... it looks to me like 2014 left 2013 in the dust

 

[JNR]

So I've heard a couple of reporters say something along the line of 'the interest peaked in 2013'. What does that mean?

It means those couple of reporters don't know the difference between these two items:

There were over 30k reservations in 2014, and about 5k in 2013.

 

[TexasElio]

This is not accurate. The P3 and P4 are actually chassis and suspension engineering mules. These vehicles are built to the chassis specifications which Elio Motors has had designed and tested via computerized design, stress, and crash analysis tools. The P4 chassis and suspension design is actually quite close to what EM will use in real world pre-production durability and crash testing and eventually in production.

Good afternoon Hector,

In my world...computer modeling is used early on to set certain design parameters when developing a completely new vehicle concept...

But...the project eventually moves to the construction of a fleet of pre-production specification ready test mules...these mules are used to validate the original computer modeling design expectations...the fleet of "mules" are subject to 100,000's of test miles in all type of driving & road conditions...and of course...real world saftey testing...gas mileage & emission testing is undertaken...

As a result of the extensive testing...design flaws are pinpointed...and redesigns are initiated...lots of staff...time & money are necessary to complete this phase of development ...

The P3 and P4 show cars are a not mechanically similar to the the fleet of specification ready mules that Mr Elio has indicated will need to be built before moving to the production phase...

This whole project is in it's early stages of development...with no real world validation testing data that indicates the promised specifications are obtainable ...

 

[CompTrex]

no clue ..

.. take a look at the chart in post 1287 at this link .... it looks to me like 2014 left 2013 in the dust

It means those couple of reporters don't know the difference between these two items:

View attachment 4118

There were over 30k reservations in 2014, and about 5k in 2013.

So am I the only one that has heard that said?

 

[Kuda]

Snipped: The P3 and P4 show cars are a not mechanically similar to the the fleet of specification ready mules that Mr Elio has indicated will need to be built before moving to the production phase...

This whole project is in it's early stages of development...with no real world validation testing data that indicates the promised specifications are obtainable ...

Outside of the IAV Motor (update of a proven design) & the beloved Elgin Dash The Elio
is comprised of known/proven/tech/parts 90% sourced in USA. These parts aren't Elio
specific but Elio 'adapted'. The P4 is a Viable Test Platform as well a show piece. As has
been noted numerous times the Elio has been modeled out the wazoo since 2008 with
progressive evolution thereof resulting in the P4 which is arguably very close to a
production template, excepting some drag issues & rear seat height. Once the motor
passes muster the final - testing/fitting/analysis & comparisons with existing modeled
data will commence. How Many of these test vehicles will actually get built is anyone's
guess. I would consider even one a major victory..........also Gino is no slouch where
production is concerned & I know for a fact (I was recently at the plant) he has spent
considerable time already @ the Shreveport plant working on production line programming.......

 

[TexasElio]

A big problem I see with the opinion you have expressed is that you do not have a good understanding of what Elio Motors has been doing since 2008. As with many start-ups Elio Motors has not had a straight path to get here but instead has had many ups and downs and some dead ends along the way so while you are trying to look at Elio Motors as one continuously flowing ongoing project since 2008 what you really need to understand is that what you see today is not the same plan and vehicle which existed even five years ago.

I'm familiar with all the data you referenced...and you are correct with your comments...my research has reinforced the notion that their "plan" is always changing...and I have no doubt the "plan" will change again...consumer confidence never thrives on uncertainty...