Is There Any Physical And Substantial Progress Towards Production Of The Elio?

[JEBar]

But...for a company that was found in 2008...I too question why there is not a fully operational specification ready test mule equipped with all the promised features already in existence...

One could argue that they are currently testing an engine that is designed specifically for the Elio Vehicle...but this is a R&D project that should have been finished years ago...and the engine represents only a small percentage of all the remaining R&D and component integration to bring this vehicle to market...

I would love to own an Elio Vehicle...I think it's a wonderful small volume niche vehicle...I guess time will tell whether it ever reaches the production phase...

you continue to relate experience gained through working in major industry with a corresponding of level of funding, staffing, and resources .... in response, it has been repeatedly noted that EM does not fit that mold .... it is a small, start-up company that is operating with limited resources .... as such, your statements are true but don't apply .... the fact is, they have shown progress in going from P1, P2, P3, and P4 generations .... since like us you are on the outside looking in and do not have access to anything other than publicly released info .... your assumption as to the company's level of R&D is based on guesswork, not on knowledge .... to gain a better understanding (if that is your goal), you might consider making the effort to visit the Elio Tour where you can speak with folks in the know .... as noted, time will tell

 

[Bert]

Resources.
If you have a lot, things tend to get done faster.
If you have to budget, it takes a bit longer.

The evolution of the Elio through 4 different stages is obvious on the outside, probably even more so where it's much harder to see the changes. The front suspension alone is an example.

Can you imagine the debates as they discussed why no already on the market motor gave them all they were looking for, then moving on a updated one to fit the projected needs? My guess is, they did not forsee the need for additional funds for further motor developement. The desision to move forward was monumental. IMO

 

[TexasElio]

you continue to relate experience gained through working in major industry with a corresponding of level of funding, staffing, and resources .... in response, it has been repeatedly noted that EM does not fit that mold .... it is a small, start-up company that is operating with limited resources .... as such, your statements are true but don't apply .... the fact is, they have shown progress in going from P1, P2, P3, and P4 generations .... since like us you are on the outside looking in and do not have access to anything other than publicly released info .... your assumption as to the company's level of R&D is based on guesswork, not on knowledge .... to gain a better understanding (if that is your goal), you might consider making the effort to visit the Elio Tour where you can speak with folks in the know .... as noted, time will tell

To gain a better perspective of the Elio Motors business model...I've reached out to several old contacts in the automotive industry who are long term R&D employees with two of the major suppliers listed on Elio's website...

Those recent conversation's were governed by industry standard confidentially agreements...but both of my buddies were in agreement that Elio's quote requests had yet to materialize in their current work schedules...

The truth is...Elio Motors is using the same contractors/supplier's that every other major automotive company utilizes...thus Elio is not unique to the automotive industry...and as a "start up"...they have very little clout with the automotive subcontractors industry...

The term "limited resources" is not a term that can ever be used to describe any successful automotive venture...the automotive industry is a capital intensive business model...you write big checks to to bring a vehicle to market...and hope you have a successful consumer product!

500 million to 1 billion...is small potatoes in the automotive industry in term of capital to develop a new vehicle...

 

[Bert]

So you think he should give up then? Based on limited capital resources?

I'm cheerleading him all the way! He is making a dream come true, for a LOT of us!

 

[TexasElio]

So you think he should give up then? Based on limited capital resources?

I'm cheerleading him all the way! He is making a dream come true, for a LOT of us!

I absolutely agree with you...one should never give up on his or her dreams...but dreams & promises need to be judged by accomplishments...

 

[JEBar]

To gain a better perspective of the Elio Motors business model...I've reached out to several old contacts in the automotive industry who are long term R&D employees with two of the major suppliers listed on Elio's website...

Those recent conversation's were governed by industry standard confidentially agreements...but both of my buddies were in agreement that Elio's quote requests had yet to materialize in their current work schedules...

here again you operate without info from inside EM .... in doing so you have jumped to the conclusion that if your friends aren't working on the project, it doesn't exist, never has, never will

The truth is...Elio Motors is using the same contractors/supplier's that every other major automotive company utilizes...thus Elio is not unique to the automotive industry...

acknowledged by EM from the beginning .... doing so has many advantages

The term "limited resources" is not a term that can ever be used to describe any successful automotive venture...the automotive industry is a capital intensive business model...you write big checks to to bring a vehicle to market...and hope you have a successful consumer product!

no doubt that past ventures have failed due in no small part to inadequate funding .... hopefully EM's management is correct in saying they have the funding to bring the project into fruition .... they are writing big (relative term) checks in areas like motor development, funding tours, funding legislative efforts ....

500 million to 1 billion...is small potatoes in the automotive industry in term of capital to develop a new vehicle...

most certainly small potatoes for major players in the automotive industry .... EM isn't developing a new car, they are developing a type of motorcycle .... more specifically, an autocycle .... as such they are covered by a completely different set of government and industry standards .... hypothesizing based on experience in one industry is fine but its also highly suspect .... yet again, if you are truly interested in learning, make the effort to attend a tour event and talk with folks who have the answers

 

[TexasElio]

.... the fact is, they have shown progress in going from P1, P2, P3, and P4 generations ....

They are just basic showcar mockups...very simple to construct...and they very little mechanical similarity with a production mule that is used to perform real world specification & durability testing...

 

[goofyone]

I share your concerns....and agree with your analysis of Elio Motors.

I think Mr Elio has designed an interesting vehicle...

But...for a company that was found in 2008...I too question why there is not a fully operational specification ready test mule equipped with all the promised features already in existence...

One could argue that they are currently testing an engine that is designed specifically for the Elio Vehicle...but this is a R&D project that should have been finished years ago...and the engine represents only a small percentage of all the remaining R&D and component integration to bring this vehicle to market...

So based on the LACK of current verifiable R&D progress reports from Elio Motors...$6,800 base MSRP...84 MPG...and 5 Star saftey ratings are just unverified marketing promises...

I would love to own an Elio Vehicle...I think it's a wonderful small volume niche vehicle...I guess time will tell whether it ever reaches the production phase...

A big problem I see with the opinion you have expressed is that you do not have a good understanding of what Elio Motors has been doing since 2008. As with many start-ups Elio Motors has not had a straight path to get here but instead has had many ups and downs and some dead ends along the way so while you are trying to look at Elio Motors as one continuously flowing ongoing project since 2008 what you really need to understand is that what you see today is not the same plan and vehicle which existed even five years ago.

The evolution of Elio Motors so far can be broken down into four stages:

1. Paul Elio uses $5 million of his own money and his engineering firm to develop his vehicle idea into the basis for the viable product. This includes building the P1 in 2008 and finding investors interested in backing the project.

2. Elio Motors production plan 1.0 began in 2009 with EM applying for funding via the original ATVM program. In 2010 the P2 was released and Elio Motors was working towards securing a closed GM plant in Pontiac, MI to build their vehicle then named "Trikke". After EM failed to win over community support for the project and were also forced to withdraw their ATVM loan application, when it became apparent that program was a dead end at that time due to issues with program, EM was forced to abandon this 1.0 plan.

3. Elio Motors transitional period from 2010-2012. This is the period Paul Elio has been quoted several times as saying was the most challenging of the entire project so far as EM had failed in their first attempt yet had to find funding to continue on. During this time the entire business plan was re-evaluated and the vehicle was re-engineered from the ground up including replacing engine design firm McLaren Performance/Linamar with IAV on a new engine designed specifically for this vehicle.

4. Elio Motors production plan 2.0 goes public in January of 2013 with the release of the completely re-engineered P3 prototype and plan to secure the former GM assembly plant Shreveport, LA. Reservations are accepted for the first time at this time. Work also continues on the new chassis design which eventually results in the P4 a year later in January 2014.
Due to outside interference in the process of leasing the plant, lawsuit and state officials involvement, Elio Motors suffers an eight month delay (Sept 2013-May 2014) in actually having a signed lease on the plant. This delay causes the funding deals EM had lined up to complete the vehicle development and enter production to collapse thus leaving them with limited funding which slows the vehicle development process considerably. However during this time gap Elio Motors is fortunate enough to have the undersecretary of the Department of Energy see and sit in the P4 and this initiates a series of conversations which leads to EM being invited to apply for the revamped ATVM loan program. Along with that EM comes up with a plan to pay for the engine and vehicle development program by selling off the unneeded equipment in the Shreveport plant. This plan allows EM to hopefully enter production without the need for additional outside investors however that option is still available as a backup plan.

 

[JEBar]

They are just basic showcar mockups...very simple to construct...and they very little mechanical similarity with a production mule that is used to perform real world specification & durability testing...

no doubt but they do reflect the progression/evolution of the product development .... numerous big hurdles have been overcome and some remain .... coming up with a production facility has been accomplished and the biggest hurdle of developing power plant capable of delivering performance capable of meeting the advertised goals is nearing completion .... producing real world test vehicles is on tap .... just because they aren't progressing at rate you or I would like, doesn't mean it can't or won't be done

 

[goofyone]

They are just basic showcar mockups...very simple to construct...and they very little mechanical similarity with a production mule that is used to perform real world specification & durability testing...

This is not accurate. The P3 and P4 are actually chassis and suspension engineering mules. These vehicles are built to the chassis specifications which Elio Motors has had designed and tested via computerized design, stress, and crash analysis tools. The P4 chassis and suspension design is actually quite close to what EM will use in real world pre-production durability and crash testing and eventually in production.