Where Do You Stand Now?

[raybonz]

It's not funny at all. Both Ford and BMW looked seriously into the prospects of high efficiency three wheeled vehicles, had some very good prototypes too. But lawyers and red tape killed it for both companies. Bean counters played a role too.
It's all available through searches. Lrn2interwebz

If this is the case why not post the info here?

Ray

 

[Craig]

It's not funny at all. Both Ford and BMW looked seriously into the prospects of high efficiency three wheeled vehicles, had some very good prototypes too. But lawyers and red tape killed it for both companies. Bean counters played a role too.
It's all available through searches. Lrn2interwebz

A top speed of approximately 50 mph. The 230cc BMW engine—modified by Institut Français du Pétrole (IFP) to use natural gas—produces 12.5 kW (17 hp) of power and maximum torque of 15.5 Nm at 6,300 rpm.

Fuel consumption is estimated to be 2.4 liters/100 km gasoline equivalent (98 mpg US), with 59.5 g/km of CO2 emissions.

The compressed natural gas is stored in two removable gas bottles providing a range of 150 km (93 miles).

Don’t think the lawyers had much to do with it. It may have been the worst design you can have for a three wheeler. Ten to one this car was more then $7,000.00.

Plus, I don't know why people keep comparing apples to oranges.
　
http://www.carscoops.com/2006/04/bmw-clever-concept_20.html

 

[DBN477]

You are correct other automakers were too conservative and would not take a chance but that just proves my point that an outsider did manage to come along, Tesla, and was able to do what the majors would not even when Elon Musk had to spend all kinds of extra money to build an entirely new company around it.

What are you reading? How is GM spending a billion dollars conservative? So another automaker not wanting to lose a billion dollars is conservative?Another automaker is going to sit back and say what, spend $5 billion? They saw electric car did not sell/lease. Consumers avoided the car.

Automakers take risks all the time. I'm not sure you understand what risk or conservative means in any defintion of the words. I mean Ford took a huge risk December 26, 1985 with the Taurus/Sable. They were not sure styling would be accepted by consumers. They did it again in January 1996 with the F150. They were so unsure consumers would like the 1997 F150 they continued making old style of F150 concurrently with the 1997 style. The Elio with it's futuristic looks, is less futuristic looking today as the Taurus/Sable was in 1985. The Chrysler Pacifica was a risk, the 300 was a risk. Automakers risk millions on concept cars every year. These days manufactures throw out wild concepts all the time, is that conservative? Sometimes they build watered down versions due to regulations. It's not their fault (notice how thick A pillars are these days?) Those beautiful wood steering wheels? A thing of the past due to regulations. Putting a diesel in a car, in a market that doesn't buy diesels in a car is a risk(because it costs money to certify engine). A luxury suv was a risk (Escalade). I'll say this, when the Lamborghini LP500 it was introduced at the Geneva auto show, it was so outrageous for the time. Today the Aventador would be equally outrageous had we never seen that LP500 so many years ago.

I was all in April 2013 and believed Elio would be built. Now is the time for a reality check. Today I have serious doubts. Would the majors MISS a market that would support 250K sales a year? Think long and hard about that one.250K....A Honda Silver Wing scooter with ABS costs $9270. Put that in perspective. An Elio will have abs, air conditioning, 3 airbags, defrost, power windows, power lock, am/fm radio, windshield wiper, and an automatic for $6800. I believe Mr. Elio believes in what he is doing, but he is in over his head. If he were a billionaire like Elon Musk, or had the backing of Elon Musk, it would be different. I know you want to will it to happen, but as each day goes by, it seems more unlikely. If he were putting up millions of dollars of his own money.................Funding is everything.

http://gas2.org/2009/05/11/ford-engineer-builds-125-mpg-3-wheeler-puts-it-on-ebay/

VW in 2006
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4990/

Volkswagen drops plans for 3 wheel car
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aG7Fl9KBQOLs

If the majors can't bring it to market.

 

[Craig]

If the majors can't bring it to market.

It's not the majors can't bring it market, they can, it's that they can't bring it to market under $7,000. This is 90% of the reason this car will sell. JMO

 

[raybonz]

What are you reading? How is GM spending a billion dollars conservative? So another automaker not wanting to lose a billion dollars is conservative?Another automaker is going to sit back and say what, spend $5 billion? They saw electric car did not sell/lease. Consumers avoided the car.

Automakers take risks all the time. I'm not sure you understand what risk or conservative means in any defintion of the words. I mean Ford took a huge risk December 26, 1985 with the Taurus/Sable. They were not sure styling would be accepted by consumers. They did it again in January 1996 with the F150. They were so unsure consumers would like the 1997 F150 they continued making old style of F150 concurrently with the 1997 style. The Elio with it's futuristic looks, is less futuristic looking today as the Taurus/Sable was in 1985. The Chrysler Pacifica was a risk, the 300 was a risk. Automakers risk millions on concept cars every year. These days manufactures throw out wild concepts all the time, is that conservative? Sometimes they build watered down versions due to regulations. It's not their fault (notice how thick A pillars are these days?) Those beautiful wood steering wheels? A thing of the past due to regulations. Putting a diesel in a car, in a market that doesn't buy diesels in a car is a risk(because it costs money to certify engine). A luxury suv was a risk (Escalade). I'll say this, when the Lamborghini LP500 it was considered so outrageous for the time. Today the Aventador would be equally outrageous had we never seen that LP500 so many years ago.

I was all in April 2013 and believed Elio would be built. Now is the time for a reality check. Today I have serious doubts. Would the majors MISS a market that would support 250K sales a year? Think long and hard about that one.250K....A Honda Silver Wing scooter with ABS costs $9270. Put that in perspective. An Elio will have abs, air conditioning, 3 airbags, defrost, power windows, power lock, am/fm radio, windshield wiper, and an automatic for $6800. I believe Mr. Elio believes in what he is doing, but he is in over his head. If he were a billionaire like Elon Musk, or had the backing of Elon Musk, it would be different. I know you want to will it to happen, but as each day goes by, it seems more unlikely. If he were putting up millions of dollars of his own money.................Funding is everything.

http://gas2.org/2009/05/11/ford-engineer-builds-125-mpg-3-wheeler-puts-it-on-ebay/

VW in 2006
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4990/

Volkswagen drops plans for 3 wheel car
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aG7Fl9KBQOLs

If the majors can't bring it to market.

Very well thought out post that hits upon many of my thoughts.. At best right now I feel the Elio is long shot.. I also feel the Elio is much different animal than what you posted.. Both of those vehicles are open cockpit and would require a helmet.. In this regard the Elio is different and would appeal to a wider audience and have fewer safety concerns..

Ray

 

[DBN477]

It's not the majors can't bring it market, they can, it's that they can't bring it to market under $7,000. This is 90% of the reason this car will sell. JMO

In the VW article, they were anticipating a just under $17k price. Think of the profit margin on that vehicle. They sell/sold cars for less (2006, date of article). They had interest from consumers. Elio is going to build this for $6800? Scooters cost more and have less. That's a VERY aggressive price.

The Ford, did have an enclosed cockpit. The later pictures had it in place.

 

[BlioKart]

In the VW article, they were anticipating a just under $17k price. Think of the profit margin on that vehicle. They sell/sold cars for less (2006, date of article). They had interest from consumers. Elio is going to build this for $6800? Scooters cost more and have less. That's a VERY aggressive price.

The Ford, did have an enclosed cockpit. The later pictures had it in place.

I think DBN477 is trying to keep it real. I agree its possible this may not happen. Its one reason I wont do the 1000$ all in. I will only risk the 100$.

For VW one big difference is they would be taking sales from there own vehicles. Also if someone is paying 17K for a VW 3 wheeler they would rather buy a Jetta or other VW vehicle which would offer more than the 3 wheeler. But a Low price point on the other hand it becomes a different story. If Elio did succeed in creating and bringing this vehicle to market. How many normal car sales will be lost to the Elio? I am not saying they will bankrupt a car company but it will sting none the less.

 

[Brainmatter]

If this is the case why not post the info here?

Ray

wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_GX3
Because like my previous posts stated elsewhere I think people should do just a little research. But here you go. I'll let vw make my case this time. You can search for the fire and BMW cases if you wish.
The VW one is new to me so I'll share it. But it does illustrate my case perfectly.

 

[Craig]

I think DBN477 is trying to keep it real. I agree its possible this may not happen. Its one reason I wont do the 1000$ all in. I will only risk the 100$.

For VW one big difference is they would be taking sales from there own vehicles. Also if someone is paying 17K for a VW 3 wheeler they would rather buy a Jetta or other VW vehicle which would offer more than the 3 wheeler. But a Low price point on the other hand it becomes a different story. If Elio did succeed in creating and bringing this vehicle to market. How many normal car sales will be lost to the Elio? I am not saying they will bankrupt a car company but it will sting none the less.

How many normal car sales will be lost to the Elio?

Very few. Most agree, price is the driving force. I would say about 60% (just a guess) of the people buying this car can't afford the other cars and the ones that can don't want to spend that much money just for a work car. JMO

 

[Brainmatter]

How many normal car sales will be lost to the Elio?

Very few. Most agree, price is the driving force. I would say about 60% (just a guess) of the people buying this car can't afford the othe cars and the ones that can don't want to spend that much money just for a work car. JMO

I agree. Or it will be an additional car. It's won't be replacing many. It is kind of its own market. Kind of like a jet ski.
Oops, forgot the . Don't want someone to think I'm literally comparing the elio to personal watercraft.