Where Do You Stand Now?

[Craig]

I didn't' know that you could buy a Sonic that cheap, it is a cool little car. I still think that I would buy an Elio if it was 14k. I just think it will be a fun car to cruise around in, what kind of millage do you get with the Sonic

It was Military week discount and my dad retired from GM and I got a discount with that and I paid about a K down.

 

[DBN477]

Why would the majors even attempt to sell something this different when they are successful doing what they are currently doing? Like all large enterprises they tend to be very risk averse as failures can easily cost long term employees, and highly paid executives, their careers. As a result they have a tendency to choose the safest route and do what they have always done but with some slight changes over time. It takes someone else trying something out of the ordinary and being somewhat successful for them to seriously consider something different. Of course this means that if Elio is successful at what they are trying to do there is a good chance someone else will either buy them out or attempt to compete against them but that is how business works.

It is a fact that three wheeled motorcycles have been a very successful, and profitable, segment of the motorcycle industry for a number of years now to the point that a few years ago even Harley Davidson got into the business directly after sitting on the sidelines for years watching others convert their bikes into trikes and sell them for crazy amounts of money. Can-Am has also been very successful at selling their Spyder trike at 2-3 times the cost of the Elio. I believe Elio is actually a logical extension of this movement and expands it to include many outside the traditional motorcycle market since it is fully enclosed and has a car like interior and controls.

Safest route? Really? Hydrogen powered vehicles is the safe route (referring to expense of development)? Was the mini-van a safe route? Don't think so station wagons dominated the scene. Hot hatch safe route? Who would have thought of making an economy car a sporty car, certainly not someone seeking the safe route.................so you say why would the majors attempt to sell something this different, you go on to say how successful and profitable they are...............umm, goes back to my point, to make money.

 

[JNR]

No it wasn't. The EV1? The Edison. The Comuta-Car. etc..

Semantics.... the EV-1 is a stretch, it was if it was a side project for GM. The Edison, different time and not germain to the conversation of modern big auto's being conservative and slow to change. Comuta car, same thing, first point - not made by big auto company and again before battery tech could support a reasonable range.

The point is tech now exists to make decent range electric car, but it was Tesla/Fisker, etc... not the major mfr's to bring to market first.

 

[goofyone]

Safest route? Really? Hydrogen powered vehicles is the safe route (referring to expense of development)? Was the mini-van a safe route? Don't think so station wagons dominated the scene. Hot hatch safe route? Who would have thought of making an economy car a sporty car, certainly not someone seeking the safe route.................so you say why would the majors attempt to sell something this different, you go on to say how successful and profitable they are...............umm, goes back to my point, to make money.

Where have you been able to buy this hydrogen powered car as I have never actually seen one for sale? I have however seen many research universities over the years getting a ton of money in government grants and partnering with automakers to research this and many other alternative power ideas.

The hot hatch was about as safe a move as you can find as all they did was take an existing car and added more power to it just like people were already doing in the aftermarket. People almost had to beg for this before they realized there was demand for this kind of vehicle.

You are actually right that the minivan was taking a chance but you also need to realize that this was a desperation move from a company that on the verge of going bankrupt again so they were willing to try new ideas. What you may not have known but can read about if you search is that the minivan idea was actually developed a decade earlier by Chrysler but never developed as they would not take a chance on it at that time.

 

[DBN477]

Semantics.... the EV-1 is a stretch, it was if it was a side project for GM. The Edison, different time and not germain to the conversation of modern big auto's being conservative and slow to change. Comuta car, same thing, first point - not made by big auto company and again before battery tech could support a reasonable range.

The point is tech now exists to make decent range electric car, but it was Tesla/Fisker, etc... not the major mfr's to bring to market first.

EV1 is hardly a strech, designed as an electric from the start. Side project? A billion dollars is a side project? Fisker, could you please tell me what powertrain they used........Tesla (Elon Musk) hardly a "start up" when a billionaire is backing you..

 

[goofyone]

Semantics.... the EV-1 is a stretch, it was if it was a side project for GM. The Edison, different time and not germain to the conversation of modern big auto's being conservative and slow to change. Comuta car, same thing, first point - not made by big auto company and again before battery tech could support a reasonable range.

The point is tech now exists to make decent range electric car, but it was Tesla/Fisker, etc... not the major mfr's to bring to market first.

I agree with you. The major manufactures had the know how and resources to build a Tesla type car but they did not want to take the chance on it and it is their loss. Elon Musk was willing to invest in it and will make out like a bandit.

The EV-1 was just a disaster all around as it shows what happens when government gets involved in business. California basically demanded an electric vehicle be produced and when they finally realized it was not practical and changed their minds GM quickly took back all the cars and scrapped them

 

[DBN477]

Where have you been able to buy this hydrogen powered car as I have never actually seen one for sale? I have however seen many research universities over the years getting a ton of money in government grants and partnering with automakers to research this and many other alternative power ideas.

The hot hatch was about as safe a move as you can fine as all they did was take an existing car and added more power to it just like people were already doing in the aftermarket. People almost had to beg for this before they realized their was demand for this kind of vehicle.

You are actually right that the minivan was taking a chance but you also need to realize that this was a desperation move from a company that on the verge of going bankrupt again so they were willing to try new ideas. What you may not have known but can read about if you search is that the minivan idea was actually developed a decade earlier by Chrysler but never developed as they would not take a chance on it at that time.

Hydrogen car is available in California, the Honda FCX Clarity (lease).

Spending money developing a turbine car, not putting it into production is the safe route?

 

[DBN477]

The major manufactures had the know how and resources to build a Tesla type car but they did not want to take the chance on it and it is their loss. Elon Musk was willing to invest in it and will make out like a bandit.

The EV-1 was just a disaster all around as it shows what happens when government gets involved in business. California basically demanded an electric vehicle be produced and when they finally realized it was not practical and changed their minds GM quickly took back all the cars and scrapped them

You answered your own question, they saw what happened to GM and did want to lose that kind of money.

 

[goofyone]

You answered your own question, they saw what happened to GM and did want to lose that kind of money.

Actually you just proved my point by admitting the big automakers would not take a chance but an outsider like Elon Musk was able to be successful at doing what the majors would not even try even though he had to start an entire company from scratch to do it just like Mr Elio is attempting to do now.

 

[JNR]

@ DBN, I can't argue this better than goofyone has. I think our interpretation that the big auto's are conservative is just very different than yours.