Time To "get 'er Done"

[Bert]

Well, I certainly hope new news comes out soon!
This thread has turned into a combat between the "I want instant gratification or you lied to me" bunch, vs "I've done my homework and will wait for the completed product" group.

The prototype mules being toured around the Country do NOT have all the bells and whistles we've been told the final product will have, for a simple reason. There is no cause or reason to spend the money to install something into them that will not be tested, as well as the fact "new" or "added" features become available as our beloved Elios are refined. The mules are proof on concept, and something we CAN put our hands on, and sit in.

Why add sound deadener to what will be a mobile trophy once production begins? Why add fuel injection when it's showing it driving, or being aloud to be driven, is the goal? Who gives a damned what size rims are on the mule, when we all know we'll be modifying them ourselves anyway? So what is it only gets 84 mpg going downhill with a tailwind? I'll be doing handstands (no easy feat for me BTW) at 75 mpg! For what the Elio will give us, I'd even be happy with a six gallon tank!

In other words, I'm not sweating the small stuff.

For those who no longer believe the Elio will be produced, or have fallen out of love with the Elio and the excitement of following the development of it, I respect your decisions. I applaud you for doing your public service, trying to push us off the Elio band wagon as well, but I am holding onto that wagon with both hands!

I did my homework before even considering adding money into the Elio dream. I read the pros and cons. I did research on the suppliers, as well as the ability of those suppliers to deliver once production begins. I am not the only one who has done so!

We ALL feel it when there's a delay, lack of news, unsubstantiated rumors, etc. How we react to this is a reflection of our charactor. IMO. I really want the Elio now, as my present POS is starting to cost me more in parts than fuel, but I also know when I do get mine, it will be road ready and reliable as possible.

BTW, in case anyone cares, I"m not a shill for Elio. I work hard for what I have. My background includes a lot of years as a greasy knuckle banger who appreciates the industry. Something I may get excited about, may not have the same effect on others, but assembliing anything running, reliable, affordable and not hard on the eyes, is a work of art. Again, IMO.

 

[JEBar]

84mpg "It gets 84 miles to the gallon on the highway."

as noted repeatedly, that is a stated goal .... as you note at this point they feel they are just short .... as in 2.6 mpg short which is 97% of their goal and they are still working on it .... that sounds to me like a company that is dedicated to achieving what they set out to accomplish

8-gallon tank - latest rumors are that the tank will be dropped to ~7 gallons.

Heads up. Two re-designs of interior. P4 has problem with rear headroom.

in addition to reworking the ceiling slope, reducing the size of the gas tank to as best I can remember 7.4 gallons is one way they can find more room to help take care of the the headroom issue .... to get more headroom, that is a compromise that I have no problem with .... not an issue

Only $6,800 - paul elio recently stated that the $6800 (like the 84mpg) was a target, not an actual figure. He stated that the vehicle would be $7300 if produced today.

as noted repeatedly, that is also a stated goal .... as you note at this point they feel they say that they are a bit over ... they are still working on it and have a year to figure out if it is possible to reduce the cost .... that sounds to me like a company that is dedicated to achieving what they set out to accomplish

Safety. None of the elio's built so far have three airbags. None of them have an Anti-Lock Braking System.

so what .... the P series are mules .... demonstration vehicles that help them refine the eventual production model .... none of the P series have many of the features that will be in the production models, motor/transmission/Skyz/dash/ seats/etc/etc/etc .... again, so what .... the sky isn't falling

American Jobs - 0 jobs, not 1,500 jobs were created at the Shreveport, LA plant beginning in the spring of 2014.

much of the reason for that delay was a court case which was resolved in EM's favor .... the Parrish commission recognizes that the reason delay is valid and the folks controlling thing have issued an extension .... in short, not an issue

Power in Numbers - not 1 liter, not 70HP, not DOHC, even in specs. Not fuel-injected on any elio built. Still no running engine of any specs.

the IAV motor will come stock, detuned for mileage .... an option to retune its computer to bring it into the 70 hp area .... not an issue

Transmission mission - Implication (not claimed here) that automatic would be same cost as manual. No automatic transmission will be available, just an AMT (which means Automated Manual Transmission). Despite this the P4 has a 3-speed automatic transmission installed.

a manual transmission will be standard .... and AMT will be available as an option in the production models .... what motor and transmission are used in the P series is totally irrelevant

Fast Facts - no evidence of either the top speed on acceleration claims.

there is no evidence positive or negative .... that will come when the test vehicles are in place

Big Brake - at least this one says "we will" rather that "is" or "gets". P4 has 14" wheels, not 15";

the brakes on the P series are irrelevant .... I simply don't understand how it is hard to understand that the P series are mules .... the only way I can see it being an issue comes when someone without a valid point tries to spin the facts to fit their agenda

Sounds of Silence - The prototypes are noisy. Some question as to whether they have fiberglass or composite bodies. No working radios in prototypes.

guess what, the lack of sound deadening in the P series is irrelevant .... I really shouldn't have to go through what has been said above again


folks who don't want an Elio or for whatever reason don't support EM have every right to feel that way .... where I see a problem is when they deliberately try to spin information to influence others .... all of the above may well be moot .... right now funding is reported to be a legitimate issue, thankfully an issue with which they are reportedly making progress

 

[eliothegreat]

Ok, I think I've got it. The P series of prototypes is irrelevant. Even though elio motors spent a million dollars on the P3 and the P4, they are irrelevant. My pointing out discrepancies between elio's words and their actions is spinning information to influence others, but their actual words, which they have used to collect ~$15-20M in non-refundable deposits, describing a product as having specifications that it does not have, is not spin.

I'm sorry for being a bit slow. Just to point out how naive I am/was, when I saw the address on the reservation form "that hasn't harmed anyone", I realized that it was within easy driving distance, and that I could go see the HQ of the company and the prototype in person. It was a bit of a shock when I didn't see any elio's in the parking lot, or the company name on the street sign, or on the complex map, or on the door of the suite. No t-shirts or bumper stickers for sale, no reservation agreement to sign, and no knowledge that their address was being used by elio motors. I was so excited by the concept that I made all the excuses, until there just wasn't room for excuses any more.

So, now, after waiting two years for a product that was supposed to be released in July of 2014 (elio's dates, not mine), and being no closer to production then than now, it turns out that I am now classed as demanding instant gratification. I'm not demanding anything. I'd like some honesty from elio motors, but that's not a demand. No threats, no offers, just a request. Little things, like "How much of the $65M that you have raised is still on hand?" "Could you please publish actual mpg's for the P3 and P4, and compare them to a Geo Metro so we could see just how much difference the reduced weight and reduced width and improved aerodynamics improve fuel economy?" "Could you please add a note to your advertising of 'specifications subject to change without notice'?" "When you show the pics of the prototype along with the claims, could you include a note indicating that the prototype does not have all/any of the projected specifications?" "Could you please publish the name of the escrow company holding the refundable reservations?" "Could you please post a video of the iav engine running?"

 

[JEBar]

a request. Little things, like "How much of the $65M that you have raised is still on hand?" "Could you please publish actual mpg's for the P3 and P4, and compare them to a Geo Metro so we could see just how much difference the reduced weight and reduced width and improved aerodynamics improve fuel economy?" "Could you please add a note to your advertising of 'specifications subject to change without notice'?" "When you show the pics of the prototype along with the claims, could you include a note indicating that the prototype does not have all/any of the projected specifications?" "Could you please publish the name of the escrow company holding the refundable reservations?" "Could you please post a video of the iav engine running?"

bottom line ..... not a single question you want answered can be answered by the members of this forum .... none of us that I know of work for EM .... as a suggestion, try Facebook where folks from the company review the questions

 

[outsydthebox]

Ok, I think I've got it. The P series of prototypes is irrelevant. Even though elio motors spent a million dollars on the P3 and the P4, they are irrelevant. My pointing out discrepancies between elio's words and their actions is spinning information to influence others, but their actual words, which they have used to collect ~$15-20M in non-refundable deposits, describing a product as having specifications that it does not have, is not spin.

I'm sorry for being a bit slow. Just to point out how naive I am/was, when I saw the address on the reservation form "that hasn't harmed anyone", I realized that it was within easy driving distance, and that I could go see the HQ of the company and the prototype in person. It was a bit of a shock when I didn't see any elio's in the parking lot, or the company name on the street sign, or on the complex map, or on the door of the suite. No t-shirts or bumper stickers for sale, no reservation agreement to sign, and no knowledge that their address was being used by elio motors. I was so excited by the concept that I made all the excuses, until there just wasn't room for excuses any more.

So, now, after waiting two years for a product that was supposed to be released in July of 2014 (elio's dates, not mine), and being no closer to production then than now, it turns out that I am now classed as demanding instant gratification. I'm not demanding anything. I'd like some honesty from elio motors, but that's not a demand. No threats, no offers, just a request. Little things, like "How much of the $65M that you have raised is still on hand?" "Could you please publish actual mpg's for the P3 and P4, and compare them to a Geo Metro so we could see just how much difference the reduced weight and reduced width and improved aerodynamics improve fuel economy?" "Could you please add a note to your advertising of 'specifications subject to change without notice'?" "When you show the pics of the prototype along with the claims, could you include a note indicating that the prototype does not have all/any of the projected specifications?" "Could you please publish the name of the escrow company holding the refundable reservations?" "Could you please post a video of the iav engine running?"

I have a step brother who really thinks the voices in his head are real. There is nothing that I, or anyone else can say to convince him otherwise. We just "accept him the way he is." So, welcome....and don't forget to take your meds. o_O

 

[WilliamH]

Ok, I think I've got it. The P series of prototypes is irrelevant. Even though elio motors spent a million dollars on the P3 and the P4, they are irrelevant. My pointing out discrepancies between elio's words and their actions is spinning information to influence others, but their actual words, which they have used to collect ~$15-20M in non-refundable deposits, describing a product as having specifications that it does not have, is not spin.

I'm sorry for being a bit slow. Just to point out how naive I am/was, when I saw the address on the reservation form "that hasn't harmed anyone", I realized that it was within easy driving distance, and that I could go see the HQ of the company and the prototype in person. It was a bit of a shock when I didn't see any elio's in the parking lot, or the company name on the street sign, or on the complex map, or on the door of the suite. No t-shirts or bumper stickers for sale, no reservation agreement to sign, and no knowledge that their address was being used by elio motors. I was so excited by the concept that I made all the excuses, until there just wasn't room for excuses any more.

So, now, after waiting two years for a product that was supposed to be released in July of 2014 (elio's dates, not mine), and being no closer to production then than now, it turns out that I am now classed as demanding instant gratification. I'm not demanding anything. I'd like some honesty from elio motors, but that's not a demand. No threats, no offers, just a request. Little things, like "How much of the $65M that you have raised is still on hand?" "Could you please publish actual mpg's for the P3 and P4, and compare them to a Geo Metro so we could see just how much difference the reduced weight and reduced width and improved aerodynamics improve fuel economy?" "Could you please add a note to your advertising of 'specifications subject to change without notice'?" "When you show the pics of the prototype along with the claims, could you include a note indicating that the prototype does not have all/any of the projected specifications?" "Could you please publish the name of the escrow company holding the refundable reservations?" "Could you please post a video of the iav engine running?"

Why would the prototype be at company headquarters?
Why would the company name be on a street sign?
Why would there be Elios in the parking lot? It isn't in production yet.
Why would you run mileage checks on a shell with the wrong motor and transmission?
Somehow, I would classify your wants as annoying. Like an insect flying around a light while you are trying to read.
Incidentally, are you "all in" at any level?
Why would the "refundable reservations" be in an escrow account?

 

[eliothegreat]

1) Just naive, expecting a company to have their product at their headquarters.
2) Because it was an office complex. All of the other businesses in the complex had their names on the sign.
3) Ah, yes. Again, naive me. From the website and press releases, I thought they actual had built several.
4) Because your main claim for the design was half a car, twice the mileage. A simple test would prove the claim true. Or false. Oh, that is why they don't publish mileage with the Geo engine. The mpg of Geo's is too well documented.
Personal insult ignored.
5) I walked into their HQ with cash in my pocket. I walked out the same. I am "all in" for enclosed tadpole trikes. I don't trust elio motors.
6) Because the reservation agreement says that they are. Haven't you read the reservation agreements?

 

[Bert]

6. I read the "all in", not the "want in". No need to for me.
5. I knew what they needed the money for, and I'm proud to throw some into the pot!
4. Run you own simulations. Spend your own money and time to disprove what they're doing.
3. They DId build several, go to see them when the tour is near you!
2. I've located three buildings on the internet that include signs. You picked the wrong one, probably from using an older page.
1. I'd rather see one in my driveway, instead of in theirs.

 

[JEBar]

1) Just naive, expecting a company to have their product at their headquarters.
2) Because it was an office complex. All of the other businesses in the complex had their names on the sign.
3) Ah, yes. Again, naive me. From the website and press releases, I thought they actual had built several.
4) Because your main claim for the design was half a car, twice the mileage. A simple test would prove the claim true. Or false. Oh, that is why they don't publish mileage with the Geo engine. The mpg of Geo's is too well documented.
Personal insult ignored.
5) I walked into their HQ with cash in my pocket. I walked out the same. I am "all in" for enclosed tadpole trikes. I don't trust elio motors.
6) Because the reservation agreement says that they are. Haven't you read the reservation agreements?

it appears that for you, the last part in #5 is the bottom line ===> "I don't trust elio motors.".... you have every right to feel that way .... you have every right to stew and twist every printed or spoken word in your mind so as to spin it into reinforcing what you want to believe .... why in the world would a person even consider doing business with a company that they don't trust .... why would they obsess about that company to the point they spend time and energy getting worked up about such a company ..... you didn't ask for a suggestion but here goes, walk away and don't look back .... find something to be happy about and move on, life is too short to spend dwelling on negative emotions .... like it or not, demand all you want, EM doesn't have to tell any of us anything ..... we are down to a little over a year before the projected production date .... we will realistically know much sooner, from certain landmarks that must be met, if they are likely to actually go into production ....

 

[eliothegreat]

it appears that for you, the last part in #5 is the bottom line ===> "I don't trust elio motors.".... you have every right to feel that way .... you have every right to stew and twist every printed or spoken word in your mind so as to spin it into reinforcing what you want to believe .... why in the world would a person even consider doing business with a company that they don't trust .... why would they obsess about that company to the point they spend time and energy getting worked up about such a company ..... you didn't ask for a suggestion but here goes, walk away and don't look back .... find something to be happy about and move on, life is too short to spend dwelling on negative emotions .... like it or not, demand all you want, EM doesn't have to tell any of us anything ..... we are down to a little over a year before the projected production date .... we will realistically know much sooner, from certain landmarks that must be met, if they are likely to actually go into production ....

LOL. You're probably right about walking away. It's like watching a train wreck, sometimes it's hard not to watch, and feel for the people still on the train. I have lots of things to be happy about, thanks. I've enjoyed and followed tadpole trikes for 30+ years. I had hoped elio would bring one to market, but they won't. They have burned through too much money and credibility to pull it off now. The early delays and broken words only affected a few thousand people. Now there are 40k people with money on the line, and probably at least 2-3 times that many who are interested but holding onto their wallets, who have seen the pattern of failure. If the missing $230M became available tomorrow, it would still take at least 18 months before production could begin. One of the main reasons for that is because the P series truly are irrelevant. Real prototypes need to be built and tested. Real engines need to be built and tested. If elio can't build a single real prototype with $65M and two years, not counting the 4+ years in the failed round one, what makes you think that they are going to be able to build the required quantity of real prototypes, set up the factory, hire all the people necessary, professionals and managers to staff and line workers, establish the sales infrastructure, write the manuals, coordinate the training, etc that needs to be done just to become operational, not to mention dealing with the inevitable challenges of any startup business in it's first year of manufacturing?

Again, no skin off my nose. When you've followed this as long and as closely as I have, you may well come to the same conclusion. We do agree that there is a good chance that you will realistically know within a year whether elio motors will be likely to ever go into production. I'll say "I told you so" now, to save having to say it then. The only way this happens is if paul gives up control of the business, and only remains on as a figurehead.