The Real P5 ?

[WilliamH]

That program took place in 2009 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Allowance_Rebate_System
But if you look it up now, it appears that it's still exists in a modified version http://www.cashforclunkers.org/

That program was to get "junk" cars off the road and get people to buy "New".
Great idea, but the fat cats got greedy (again) and started bumping the price of new cars up.
And they don't give you anything for trade-ins, but they sure mark those trade-ins up after.
A lot of "used" cars cost almost as much as New

The problem was that at the time many people were trading in 3 or 4 year old cars so they could get the credit on a new one, and those traded cars never made it to the used market.

 

[pistonboy]

I find it interesting that the cash for clunkers program tried to indirectly make it more difficult to keep other identical vehicles operating, by reducing the availability of used parts. From Wikipedia"

To ensure that vehicles traded-in under "cash for clunkers" will not be resold by dealers, the program outlines a procedure for destructively disabling the engine (and thus also precluding the possibility that any mechanical engine components might be salvaged to be used in the repair of any other vehicles): The motor oil is drained and replaced with a sodium silicate solution, then the engine is started and run until the solution, becoming glass-like when heated, causes engine internals to abrade and ultimately seize.

 

[Coss]

The problem was that at the time many people were trading in 3 or 4 year old cars so they could get the credit on a new one, and those traded cars never made it to the used market.

Yup, there were a lot of cars traded in that just became scrap metal after the engine destruction.
What it did do is really hurt the used car market; used car dealers were making offers on other cars that didn't want to go through the program or buy a new car. That really did a number of the price of used cars sending them sky high.
So the Cash for Clunkers program was a double edged sword.

 

[AJ Maxey]

Thank you to Silas for posting on EMOA!

 

[JEBar]

at a glance, the P5 frame looks much like the P4 shown below .... the arc of the roof does appear to reflect the changes we have been told to expect

 

[pistonboy]

I would have to politely disagree, I think some of the sporty people will make the changes they want to after they get their Elio and other sporty people will buy something else. At a projected price of $6800, I believe Paul is after the folks that can't afford a new car or don't want to buy a used car. Most of these folks just want basic, affordable and reliable transportation. To me, not an engineer I see the differences as being suttel changes and I think we will all have to wait for the final product before we can judge and further. After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The fenders can be changed easily giving what ever appearance is desired. Things would be great if all was like this.

The diagonal shocks can not be easily installed because it looks like the pull-rod is in the way. However, the pull-rod may not be needed with diagonal shocks and thus removed enabling the diagonal shocks installation. This would be more complicated than the fender change but sporty people do not think twice about working on cars and would be no problem to them. I sent an email to Elio Motors many months ago encouraging them to design the vehicle so it can be easily converted to diagonal shocks by the owners. Elio Motors would probably never offer the vehicle in this form because now it would have to be retested for handling and stability.

The panel covering the front suspension juncture to the body is perplexing. It showed up only a few days ago. Manufacture and attachment of this panel would increase manufacturing cost However it would be more aerodynamic and improve mpg. This is an official CAD drawing from Elio Motors released on their official face book page. Leaving off the two hood latch points could be a CAD oversight but the suspension panel took effort and certainly was no oversight.

In LA, I asked Paul Elio about the two hood latches missing on the P5 drawing and he indicated it was a CAD oversight. Has that oversight still not been corrected or has the design changed? I asked Jerome about the ability to lock the hood from outside intruders and he indicated it would be lockable. I got the impression it would consist of two locks that sit in place of the two latches.

The influence of styling on people is a totally illogical thing. I have noticed vacuum cleaners are stylishly designed. They are utilitarian items that sit in the closet until needed, then brought out, used, and set back in the closet. They are never set out on display. So why are they made to look attractive. Apparently style influences purchasers. Style is weird.


P. S. You were very polite in your disagreement. Thanks.

 

[ks6c]

We need to convince someone to install a live video feed from his work bay!

 

[Hotscoots]

I much prefer the open look of the front suspension . Completely understand that PE is attempting to glean every MPG he can. But many of us are quite satisfied with a kitchey vehicle that gets more than 2x the MPG of any other vehicle on the road . 81 VS 84 MPG ?? C'mon it's all good . For those that will claim that PE made a commitment to 84 MPG , I say the production date commitment is exponentially more important than 3 MPG .

 

[Reid3400]

I hope and expect aftermarket suppliers to popup as soon as production begins. International and local clubs will form and modifications will show-up everywhere. Some ape with too many beer in the shop fridge, will graft a 500cu in Caddy Eldorado to the cube. 8mpg and an 8sec quarter mile will be thethe focus of the misguided. Boss Hoss

is waiting;

 

[JEBar]

I much prefer the open look of the front suspension . Completely understand that PE is attempting to glean every MPG he can. But many of us are quite satisfied with a kitchey vehicle that gets more than 2x the MPG of any other vehicle on the road . 81 VS 84 MPG ?? C'mon it's all good . For those that will claim that PE made a commitment to 84 MPG , I say the production date commitment is exponentially more important than 3 MPG .

as already noted in this thread and in many others before it, you will find a good number of folks who agree .... unfortunately, our forum and and other sites that setup for folks who are interested in EM, have been through the tirades of former members who strongly feel differently .... Paul may not fully reach all of his must haves and if he doesn't, the blow-back will resume .... personally, I prefer the P3 fenders .... personally, I want nothing to do with the Elgin .... personally I prefer the fuel port being on the left .... to help reach his mileage standard, the P4 fenders will be standard ....to help with his base price goal, the fuel port will be on the right .... on Facebook we were told that if we want an Elio, we had to take the Elgin .... the bottom line is, its pretty much take it or leave it .... I can understand him not changing his plans to suit my wants .... we plan to buy an Elio, to modify what we can and live with the rest