The P5: What Would You Change?

[Ekh]

Should be changed:

• OBDII buss to 2-way (currently planned for outbound only). This enables a range of owner-driven options such as performance tuning for those who want it.
• Fix the dash -- if not the sacred speedo, at least that huge bland, blank, uninformative instrument panel. Even using a darker color would help.
• Cup holder
• Built-in storage niche beneath right arm rest -- no cost to do this, just change the mould.
• Resolve issue of radio placement if skyzmatic is ordered.
• Make full belly pan an factory option if it can't be accommodated as standard because of cost. the P5 is utterly unprotected, uninsulated, and doesn't even have a complete firweall isolating the engine compartment (though they'll probably fix that prior to Detroit car show).
• Include Cruise control as standard.
• Rear view camera as standard equipment. This is for practical reasons and to make the vehicle more car-like -- and cars now require them.
• Change location of battery so as to be more accessible. If it's not a gel battery now, that should be an option.
• Resolve issue of windshield wiper bottle. I'm fine with the 2-litre soda bottle solution, but where will it mount, and how will liquid be squirted onto the windshield?
• Make wishbones as in P4, not the ugly stampings of P5 -- at least as an option. That's a visible part of the car and lends it much character, so it shouldn't look like a refugee from a Yugo factory got at it.

 

[outsydthebox]

Funny thing is, how many of you are really into 84mpg "must"? Most if not all in here just can't wait to get their hands on their ELIO and "add" something! Forget about the aerodynamics, forget about the stock engine, change the engine, add turbo,(I'm guilty too), add, add, add! How many of you are really concerned about helping lessen our dependence on foreign oil? Honestly? Or you just want the ELIO to add to your new toy, or to be the first one in your city to own one? Bragging rights? Ego? Which is it? What is your real motivation for owning one?......

I want an Elio for ALL of the reasons you listed! I actually "want" 2 Elios....one to hyper-mile and one to customize

 

[skygazer6033]

The Elio is going to have very restricted steering due to the need to keep the fenders from hitting the door or side of the body on the right. Unfortunately this restriction increases the turn radius to probably 32 to 36 feet. (Just guessing here I've read nothing official ) With the roadster style fenders there is much more room for steering deflection before the fenders approach the body. Has anyone heard if the steering travel can be adjusted to decrease turn radius if the roadster fenders are used?

 

[outsydthebox]

The Elio is going to have very restricted steering due to the need to keep the fenders from hitting the door or side of the body on the right. Unfortunately this restriction increases the turn radius to probably 32 to 36 feet. (Just guessing here I've read nothing official ) With the roadster style fenders there is much more room for steering deflection before the fenders approach the body. Has anyone heard if the steering travel can be adjusted to decrease turn radius if the roadster fenders are used?

If you notice, the "flat" back of the wheel skirts is very close to the tire. I think the turning radius will be similar to any other car with the same wheelbase.

 

[Bert]

The Elio is going to have very restricted steering due to the need to keep the fenders from hitting the door or side of the body on the right. Unfortunately this restriction increases the turn radius to probably 32 to 36 feet. (Just guessing here I've read nothing official ) With the roadster style fenders there is much more room for steering deflection before the fenders approach the body. Has anyone heard if the steering travel can be adjusted to decrease turn radius if the roadster fenders are used?

There's as much clearance as a full fender vehicle. Turning is limited on normal cars and trucks to where the frame and/or inner wheel well is located. It's just unusual to see the "fender" turn with the tires.

 

[3wheelin]

You could also just drive a station wagon. While I agree that a bit more storage capacity would be great, remember the basics: 95% of the cars on the road in America contain one driver. For one occupant, the Elio offers plenty of space for most activities. I know (because I measured) that with the seat down there's room for a large duffel bag, a backpack containing camera gear, and a tripod. And one other basic: every thing about this car is optimized to meet three targets: mileage, cost, and safety.

I've read a lot of blather about "minimal effect on aerodynamic drag". That might be true, but without wind tunnel testing or really high end engineering simulation software, and access to the full CAD drawings for the car, WE DON'T KNOW what the actual effect of any body alteration might be. So without numbers, everybody claiming things like "minimal effect on MPG" is talking through their hat, to put it politely.

Meanwhile, EM is struggling to reach their targets with a production car. If at some point down the road they decide extra carrying capacity is essential to improve sales, they'll re-engineer the car to provide it. Remember that what EM is working with is a nexus of targets: mpg, cost, safety, and anything you do to one affects the other two. That's what makes teeny tiny changes and fine-tuning so important (and so time consuming and expensive).

If EM backed off on their combined goals, say to 78 MPG and $7,500, (hypothetical numbers) they might be able to design a model that offers increased storage. And if they wanted to jack the price to $9,000 or more, you might have a "lambo style" door -- at the cost of a lot of weight.

This thread was supposed to be about what the first production Elio needs to be a better car (P5 -- what would you change), not a trip to Tomorrowland or some other movie version of reality.

If you want Lambo doors, enough storage to carry an 800 pound coffin, be my guest -- but don't expect EM to do it for you. Buy your Elio and play with it all you like.

Well said Ekh!

 

[pistonboy]

Can someone please explain to me how having a square rear end of the vehicle and the wheel fenders is aerodynamic. I have been told this is aerodynamic by the tour people.

If this is aerodynamic, than all the airplane designers have it wrong by tapering the tail of planes.

I think it looks good and would not want it tapered. The aptera tail looked ridiculous and ugly.

 

[slinches]

It has been explained before elsewhere, but the squared off back end is a compromise between added weight/length and optimal aerodynamics (imagine trying to parallel park a fully tapered mini-van size automobile). For planes minimizing drag is critical to performance and the added weight of the fairings makes up for itself at higher speeds, so the designs reflect those differences.

 

[slinches]

If you're asking how the square back end is better than a rounded one that isn't appreciably longer, that's a lot more involved. The best brief description I can give is that a properly designed flat end tends to create a stable bubble of turbulent flow behind it that is smaller than the one you would have with a rounded design on average. The key is to make the shape of that bubble taper aftward, using it as a sort of virtual fairing. This picture describes the effect fairly well:

 

[Bert]

Can someone please explain to me how having a square rear end of the vehicle and the wheel fenders is aerodynamic. I have been told this is aerodynamic by the tour people.

If this is aerodynamic, than all the airplane designers have it wrong by tapering the tail of planes.

I think it looks good and would not want it tapered. The aptera tail looked ridiculous and ugly.

Well, you're actually on the right track! "camback" cars truly are based on the "wing" style, only without the tapering end. Here's why, Airplane wings are designed to "lift" the plane. if you turn it upside down, it would firmly plant that same plane hopelessly on the ground. If you've noticed, the side view of the Elio isn't far off what the same view of an airplane wing is! This is without the addition of the rest of the wing, as no one needs it hanging out back there, and it would actually create an instability while driving under varying conditions.
When you look at the Elio from the top view, you notice it also curves in at the back. This helps the Elio remain stable at speed, as well as giving the air going around the Elio a "curved plain" to travel along. This, redirection of force, if you will, reduces the vortex air behind it, as it's already angling towards the same air flow on the other side of the vehicle. The vortex is actually unstable air, and creates a lot of backward "pull', harming mileage at higher speeds.
I guess the easiest way of saying it is, with the inward curvatures of the roof line and the sides of the vehicle, the rest of the "wing" on the back isn't needed, as the already redirected air meets well behind the moving vehicle with far less vortex turbulence.