The Elio Engine

[raybonz]

Plasma sprayed lining..........

What effect will this have on engine longevity?

Thanks,
Ray

 

[ls10]

Suppose to last longer, reduce friction, & transfer heat better.

 

[raybonz]

My 08 Sentra has an all aluminum engine I wonder if it is sleeved or plasma treated.. 123,000 miles and still going..

 

[Jerry Greif]

I would bet that the Elio will go 100,000 miles without no problems, they are not going to put in a cheap lawn mower engine. At a minimum it will be as good as a Geo Metro and a lot of them went 200,000 and they were powering a car twice the size of the Elio.

 

[goofyone]

I read somewhere the engine will be aluminum which if fine IF the cylinders have steel sleeves.. Does anyone know if this engine will have steel sleeves?

Ray

I haven't raised any concerns about it on any forum but I'll confess, I've been a bit concerned with the all-aluminum engine. Not only bad experience with an early '70's vehicle with aluminum heads but a dozen years as a machinist and now twenty-five years as a mechanical designer cause me to worry a bit. Cast iron sleeves in an aluminum block don't ease my worries any. If you understand the difference in the thermal expansion rate of aluminum vs. cast iron, you know why. But after a little research, I feel better. Here are a couple of excerpts for those who don't want to dig too deep and a link for those who might.

http://www.flame-spray.com/

"An important goal for engine manufacturers is to reduce fuel consumption, which can be accomplished by decreasing overall vehicle weight and improving engine efficiency by reducing the internal friction losses. Substantial weight savings can be achieved with the use of aluminum engines. However, most aluminum engines require cast iron liners to be used as the wear surface. Additional weight savings and potential friction reduction can be achieved by replacing these heavy cast iron liners with a low friction, wear resistant PTWA coating on the cylinder bores. Additional benefits of PTWA in new production engines include improved heat transfer and decreased bore distortion, which reduces friction loss and oil consumption."

"Flame Spray Inc., Port Washington, N.Y.,announces that the Plasma Transferred Wire Arc coating process has been selected by Ford Motor Co. to coat the internal surface of the aluminum engine block cylinder bores in the Ford Shelby GT500 sports car. PTWA provides a lower cost and lower weight alternative to cast iron liners, while delivering increased displacement in the same size engine package, and a potential for better heat transfer."

From what I have read this plasma transferred wire arc thermal spraying process is well proven and has been used in quite a number of cars from a wide variety of manufacturers including some very high performance engines such as the Ford Mustang GT500 and Nissan GTR. Porsche engines have been using similar processes for years now and are engineered with help from IAV who happen to be developing this engine for Elio.

 

[raybonz]

From what I have read this plasma transferred wire arc thermal spraying process is well proven and has been used in quite a number of cars from a wide variety of manufacturers including some very high performance engines such as the Ford Mustang GT500 and Nissan GTR. Porsche engines have been using similar processes for years now and are engineered with help from IAV who happen to be developing this engine for Elio.

Good post! The problem years ago with aluminum heads was blown head gaskets caused by movement of aluminum compared to cast iron block. All aluminum eliminates the dissimilar metal issue. My 08 Sentra is not an oil burner at 123K miles now I wonder how they treated the cylinder walls.
Ray

 

[raybonz]

I would bet that the Elio will go 100,000 miles without no problems, they are not going to put in a cheap lawn mower engine. At a minimum it will be as good as a Geo Metro and a lot of them went 200,000 and they were powering a car twice the size of the Elio.

Elio has to do much better than 100k miles. I do that in 4 years! Some here much more than that too.

 

[Zipper]

Good post! The problem years ago with aluminum heads was blown head gaskets caused by movement of aluminum compared to cast iron block. All aluminum eliminates the dissimilar metal issue. My 08 Sentra is not an oil burner at 123K miles now I wonder how they treated the cylinder walls.
Ray

You may be able to find out by looking for the specifics of your engine in Wikipedia. I took a quick look, but without knowing the details of your engine can't determine exactly what you have.

 

[ST13Fred]

If the CR is 10.5 or higher, Elio may require mid-grade fuel. The 2 valve head means it is more torque and not a high revving motor.
Being a 'motorcycle', Elio won't be burdened w/all the emission plumbing a car requires, only a CAT and a few other minor components.

 

[Velnias]

The problems you were seeing were that of two vastly different metals being used, that quite honestly should never have been combined. Most of your high performance engines on the market are all aluminum. The LS series of motors from GM, including the LS9 6.2L supercharged V8 putting out 638 bhp (476 kW) at 6500 rpm and 604 lb·ft (819 N·m) at 3800 rpm, are all aluminum engines for the high performance applications (some of the truck series motors used iron heads with aluminum blocks). All sport bike motorcycles have been using all aluminum engines for decades as well. Using aluminum for both the heads and the block is better than using iron. It's lighter, it dissipates heat better, and is so readily available these days that the costs have changed. In this application of a 900cc I3 with ~55hp, you are much better off using aluminum instead of iron, especially for the weight concerns.