The Elio Engine

[McBrew]

There are a lot of assumptions being tossed around here.

Turbocharging a gasoline engine will usually cause it to burn more fuel. If you are boosting the air, you have to boost fuel injection to maintain a stoichiometric fuel/air ratio. The only way to use turbocharging to burn less fuel is to use the additional torque to keep the RPMs low (up shifting sooner). This is more effective with diesels, in general.

My Fiat is a perfect example: the non-turbo gets better fuel economy than the turbo. Non-turbo is 1.4L and 105 horsepower. The turbo (Abarth) is 1.4L and 160 horsepower. Boost runs up to 24 PSI. Other versions of this engine put out up to 220 horsepower, but are not available in the US.

More fun? Yes! Better fuel economy? No way.

Real live engineers designed the Elio engine to return the best fuel economy using proven, reliable, inexpensive technology. I trust them more than any armchair engineer.


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[floydv]

No need to insult armchair engineers. There is some real engineering that goes into designing armchairs.

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/july/chairs-design-class-072412.html

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

The Ford Ecoboost is one of the least reliable engines on the market.

it is the LAST engine i would like to see in the elio.

 

[WilliamH]

The Ford Ecoboost is one of the least reliable engines on the market.

it is the LAST engine i would like to see in the elio.

I have a 2011 F150 4x4 with trailer package.Just had new spark plugs for the first time at 105K.
I occasionally use it towing 5 ton corn trailers off road working on a friends ranch.
Seems pretty reliable to me.

 

[Chaz]

There are a lot of assumptions being tossed around here.

Turbocharging a gasoline engine will usually cause it to burn more fuel. If you are boosting the air, you have to boost fuel injection to maintain a stoichiometric fuel/air ratio. The only way to use turbocharging to burn less fuel is to use the additional torque to keep the RPMs low (up shifting sooner). This is more effective with diesels, in general.

My Fiat is a perfect example: the non-turbo gets better fuel economy than the turbo. Non-turbo is 1.4L and 105 horsepower. The turbo (Abarth) is 1.4L and 160 horsepower. Boost runs up to 24 PSI. Other versions of this engine put out up to 220 horsepower, but are not available in the US.

More fun? Yes! Better fuel economy? No way.

Real live engineers designed the Elio engine to return the best fuel economy using proven, reliable, inexpensive technology. I trust them more than any armchair engineer.


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I have this Fiesta and I drove it 400 miles on the highway last Thursday and got 44.5 mpg at 75mph. Around town I get around 34mpg. As far as gas mileage it does get better mileage and has higher horsepower than a 4 cyl Fiesta. The 3cyl 123hp 31/43mpg 4 cyl 120hp 27/37mpg.

 

[Marshall]

I drive a Prius Hybrid and get 50 around town and about 47 on the highway. I have no clue about it's size or horsepower since I try not to use it to it's limits anyway. It just gets me from point A to point B very efficiently. I know I could drive it harder (it has a lot more capability which I only use when I'm upset at another driver) and get less, but why should I?

 

[McBrew]

I have this Fiesta and I drove it 400 miles on the highway last Thursday and got 44.5 mpg at 75mph. Around town I get around 34mpg. As far as gas mileage it does get better mileage and has higher horsepower than a 4 cyl Fiesta. The 3cyl 123hp 31/43mpg 4 cyl 120hp 27/37mpg.

And that makes perfect sense. The 3 cyl is a 1.0L engine. The 4 cyl is a 1.6L engine. Although the turbo 3 will be able to burn more fuel under boost, it will burn less under most situations.

Under boost, a turbocharged engine is behaving like a larger displacement engine. A non-turbo engine runs a little lower than atmospheric pressure due to the intake suction, but from r the sake of argument, let's say there is one atmosphere of pressure in the cylinders (~14.5 PSI). If a turbocharger brings that up to 20 PSI above atmospheric, that's 2.2 times the air in each cylinder. The engine is also pumping in 2.2 times the fuel. So, a 1.0L engine boosted to 20 PSI is acting more like. 2.2L engine when under boost, but acts like a 1.0L engine when it is not under boost. Best of both worlds: the power of a bigger engine when you need it, and the fuel economy of a smaller engine when you don't.

This is why concepts like Ford's Ecoboost work -- replace a larger engine with a smaller turbocharged engine. If they had instead turbocharged the 1.6L Fiesta engine, it would get worse fuel economy than the non-turbo, since it would use roughly the same amount of fuel when not under boost, but would use more fuel when under boost.




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[Muzhik]

that is very true except the world like diversity, If ford was to let ELIO use the ECOboost 1.0L engine can be a good marketing spin for them to get the public acceptence here in America land of the v-8 to go for the little engine that could.

You also run into what I call the "Water Rights Problem." Presumably the contract to provide Elio the Festiva engines would be for X engines per year at Y price, and a terminate-at-will clause; OR; provide X engines at Y price for Z number of years, contract to be renegotiated at the end of the term. Say the Elio explodes in popularity. That sounds like good news, but it's not.

Elio becomes like the farmstead whose water source (stream or whatever) originates on someone else's private property. The farmstead then becomes dependent upon the goodwill of the upstream water owner, who could simply cut off their water supply at will. The farmstead is then forced to drill their own well at their own expense to ensure they won't go under.

If the Elio becomes popular, that shows the larger automakers (Ford, in particular) that, yes Virginia, there IS a market for autocycles in America. All without their having to spend a dime in market research (because Elio did their market research for them). Having greater resources, Ford could produce their own autocycle, probably under a different label, using their own engine, and distributed through their existing dealer system. When the contract with Elio comes up for re-negotiation, Ford could simply decline to renew the contract, forcing Elio to find another source for an engine, and fast.

It may be more expensive up front and take longer, but the SAFER business model is to drill your own well at the beginning to avoid ever being dependent on another agency for the most important part of your product.

 

[McBrew]

If they had instead turbocharged the 1.6L Fiesta engine, it would get worse fuel economy than the non-turbo, since it would use roughly the same amount of fuel when not under boost, but would use more fuel when under boost.

Of course, Ford DOES turbocharge the 1.6L in the Fiesta ST, and it does get the lowest fuel economy of all three engine options -- as expected.


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[Made in USA]

Wondering if anyone has heard about the Elio exhaust system. I wonder if it will be stainless or if that would be an option.