Start Stop System

[Ty]

Given the light weight and the light engine of the Elio, the possibilities are huge. A battery that is able to repeatedly start a big engine could do quite some assisting in an Elio. The heavy duty motors/alternators get cheaper and better all the time. From my understanding though, a hydraulic belt tensioner is often needed and the whole set-up including the bolts and the flywheel must be set up to allow for higher forces as compared to regular starts. With the valves, I doubt that you can get them to stay closed throughout an engine cycle.

Well, not with the Elio but you can with other management systems.

LOL... I was looking for an example and came across this:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/02/20150213-pilot.html
But, here is the gist.. (it's got to be a wee expensive)

The 2016 Pilot features a new 3.5-liter, direct-injected i-VTEC V-6 engine with new two-stage Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) cylinder deactivation technology. For improved fuel efficiency, the 2016 Pilot will also include a stop start feature—Honda’s first non-hybrid application of this technology.

Honda VCM deactivates the cylinder by using its VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control) technology to keep the intake and exhaust valves in the closed position to halt fuel supply. To deactivate a cylinder, the pin is moved hydraulically to disengage the rocker arm that pushes down the valves. In this mode, even though the cam pushes up the rocker arm, it has no effect and the valves remain closed.
Honda says that cylinder deactivation is effective in reducing fuel consumption for three main reasons:

1. Eliminates pumping losses in the deactivated cylinders. Keeping the valves closed in the cylinder to stop fuel supply also prevents aspiration in that cylinder. This eliminates pumping loss—the air resistance incurred when the pistons pump intake and exhaust gases through the cylinder—which is the greatest source of resistance in engine operation. This is the main reason why deactivating the cylinders contributes to improved fuel economy.
2. Reducing pumping losses in active cylinders. In 3-cylinder operation, the throttle is open wider. This makes intake easier for the active cylinders, reducing intake pumping losses for improved fuel economy.
3. Reduced loss from valve operation. Because the valves are deactivated, losses are largely reduced, allowing the engine to operate more efficiently. This contributes to improved fuel economy.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

So big day Friday, huh?

Why is there secondary discussion here about sss? (LOL)
EVERY Friday is a big EM event!

 

[Johnapool]

Yes, most studies report about a 10% average fuel economy gain with start/stop technology, but individual driving situations can and will result in much higher savings.

The batteries are actually lighter and AGM batteries are being employed to lower vehicle weight and provide better electrical reliability compared with flooded lead–acid batteries. Even if they were heavier: the savings are calculated after the battery is changed.

The AGM (Advanced Glass Mat) batteries are safer, more efficient and last longer (up to four times longer!) - did I mention lighter? - meaning less battery changes over the lifetime of the vehicle, they also crank out way more amps and have better cycling capabilities. Many systems replace the regular battery with one that is deep-cycle resistant (either EFB or AGM technology), so no: additional batteries aren't needed.

Of course if the implemented SSS doesn't support coasting and you don't have red lights or stop and go traffic on your commute, that will result in less savings. For the average driver it will still mean an average of 10% in fuel (and emissions) saved.

It looks like other technologies (such as direct injection or lean burn) have not been chosen for the Elio, because they are less proven, are more costly to maintain or to manufacture. SSS can actually lower vehicle maintenance costs and is so cheap to build, that it is even being used for many entry level cars in developing nations (several low cost SSS are being built for low mpg engines and relatively cheap compact cars).

In short, no matter what most Americans seem to think, the world is changing to SSS and in time the US car industry will follow behind. Unless we all switch to battery powered cars before that happens (not likely).

Absorbed Glass Mat
and, this chart is worth looking at:
http://www.altenergymag.com/emagazi...m-ion-in-stationary-storage-applications/1884

 

[WilliamH]

Absorbed Glass Mat
and, this chart is worth looking at:
http://www.altenergymag.com/emagazi...m-ion-in-stationary-storage-applications/1884

John,
Give us the URL for the "chart".
It doesn't make sense in the format presented.

 

[WilliamH]

Absorbed Glass Mat
and, this chart is worth looking at:
http://www.altenergymag.com/emagazi...m-ion-in-stationary-storage-applications/1884

The source URL didn't show up until I did the reply,
Sorry.

 

[Johnapool]

Here is how my G1 handles the auto/stop. Yes it is a stick.

http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclopedia/enidlestop.html

Slightly different than a conventional car because of the IMA Battery/System, but you get the idea.

Willie

YES- this is the answer to many of the questions here. The Honda Insight uses a 13 hp electric motor, piggy-backed on the 1.3l gas engine as power source, starter, and, I think, as an alternator to charge the batteries. I am thinking of buying a first generation Insight and have been studying them a lot. They are an ingenious design, getting super mileage. I have read that the SSS is seamless, as the 13 hp electric motor starts the engine instantly.

 

[Johnapool]

The source URL didn't show up until I did the reply,
Sorry.

The page has several charts comparing lead-acid batteries of all sorts to lithium-ion. Even the best lead-acid batteries, agm, etc., are going to be outdated very soon by new technology. Tesla and other auto manufacturers have companies working on higher capacity Lithum-ion batteries that will take charges at higher rates, thus charging more quickly- we gotta have everything right now, you know.
And you should read up about vanadium flow batteries- 30 to 50 year life span.

 

[Johnapool]

good suggestion, but just take a gander of the threads and posts, and you'll very soon discover, as we march in place to the distant beat of the EM drum, there is really NOTHING to discuss, things pick-up with a tech bulletin, interesting blog, or letter from Paul.enjoy!! lol My heart goes out to those suffering longer than I (Aug2014). My therapist tells me that my long term gratification skills need to be addressed- I've bought bikes, cars and homes, in a blink!!
This is driving me to new meds!!!

RU, maybe you should concentrate on short-term gratification. I'm going down for a little hot-fudge sundae, right now...

 

[RUCRAYZE]

RU, maybe you should concentrate on short-term gratification. I'm going down for a little hot-fudge sundae, right now...

I hear ya!
I'm going for one of my favs- Strawberry-Rose Water Cobbler with Lemon-Poppy Seed Pastry,- Sunday sounds great, but unless it's Tofu based ice cream, I'm out (Been a vegan for 4 yrs) lol, enjoy!!
it's II:XXX time to turn in 1/2 a good night

 

['lio]

Absorbed Glass Mat
and, this chart is worth looking at:
http://www.altenergymag.com/emagazi...m-ion-in-stationary-storage-applications/1884

Great battery comparison. It appears that initial purchase price and safety concerns are the only reasons we don't see more lithium ion batteries in engine compartments. Likely to change not to far in the future.