Somewhat Tough Questions...

[Dusty921]

Welcome Tex!
It's always a good thing to expand our horizons with a new perspective, especially a knowledgeable one.

 

[goofyone]

From where we are sitting, on the outside looking in without all the information, I believe it is really hard to tell how long bringing the plant online will take. However what we do know is that EM will have a head start when the work on the plant kicks into high gear.

We know that thanks to the GM bankruptcy when they vacated the plant they left behind much of the equipment EM would need so that is already in the Shreveport plant. We know Comau has been working with EM for a long time to develop their plan of attack on the plant and we know Comau has been working in the plant for several months now mostly concentrating on moving things out to sell. During the Town Hall we were also told that they would take advantage of the availability of resources to also move needed equipment where it needs to go and likely begin refurbishing some of the EM equipment as Comau is refurbishing some of the equipment to be sold anyway so this is the most efficient way to handle it.

 

[Ty]

From where we are sitting, on the outside looking in without all the information, I believe it is really hard to tell how long bringing the plant online will take. However what we do know is that EM will have a head start when the work on the plant kicks into high gear.

We know that thanks to the GM bankruptcy when they vacated the plant they left behind much of the equipment EM would need so that is already in the Shreveport plant. We know Comau has been working with EM for a long time to develop their plan of attack on the plant and we know Comau has been working in the plant for several months now mostly concentrating on moving things out to sell. During the Town Hall we were also told that they would take advantage of the availability of resources to also move needed equipment where it needs to go and likely begin refurbishing some of the EM equipment as Comau is refurbishing some of the equipment to be sold anyway so this is the most efficient way to handle it.

Also keep in mind there are two extremes to start up production:
1. Flip the switch and everything works. Time is minimal.
2. Start with nothing and set up the entire factory. Time is... Well, a lot.

GM already has in place chassis handling equipment, axle lifting and placement, engine handling equipment, etc. Most of this was operated by a human who guided things via joystick. That will still happen even though the components are different size/shape. The molding, forging, and forming operations will be more difficult. It is my understanding that the body panels will be delivered to Elio. The frame will have to be manufactured on-site. The engine will have to be forged, machined, and assembled. That will, indeed, be the long pole in the tent. As long as suppliers can keep up with quantity, quality, and timeliness, the engine and frame are the only two components that ELIO REALLY needs to concentrate on as far as process control is concerned. Sure, there are a million little details but, just as GM did, most of this is simple assembly with minimal "robots" involved. "Bob, grab a red fender for me and two fasteners." "Billy, this next one is an AMT. Grab the pedal box that has the clutch in it." Each person does a 52 second or shorter job.

Sorry... kind of went in a tangent there. My engineering background always comes out. "You know honey, if you dried the dishes on the other side of the sink, it would save you having to reach (SMACK) ... nevermind."

 

[Norahsbed]

Hey TexasElio, welcome to the Family. My bad manners had me commenting on this thread before welcoming you as a new member( to self: shame on you! Your mother taught you better!) So ask all the tough questions you'd like, some will be answered, some not but you'll have a blast reading through all the opinions.

Keep in mind Paul Elio is not your typical automobile designer or manufacture. He had a dream and a plan and while some in the industry think he's going about it half A$$ Backwards, so far it's worked. He not only wants to change what we drive ( a 3 wheeler, "And" vehicle ) but how and where they are sold. Imagine walking into a dealership, picking out your vehicle, with only the options you want, Not the ones they want to sell you. Sounds good to me. If it takes a little longer for production to start, so be it. I'm beginning to learn the verture and value of patience. You can teach an ol' dog new tricks!

 

[Jeff Porter]

I greatly appreciate the warm welcome!

So...here's an interesting recent posting as quoted from another forum...obviously he has current ties to the automotive manufacturing industry...

Basically...a very insightful comment with regards to the promised Elio production time frame...

"At this point, 3rd-quarter 2015 mass production of the Elio vehicle is a pipe dream...It's not going to happen.

In the rest of the automotive world, the production equipment for MY 2016 vehicles (production start date in that same range) is getting installed and commissioned now, in preparation for pre-production builds early in 2015.

I've mentioned before that I hear about a good many vehicle programs through the grapevine due to my work. The amount that I've heard through the grapevine about production equipment being built for the Elio program remains exactly, precisely, zero. It is conceivable that they are using a completely separate group of suppliers who I don't have any contact with ... but then I'd question whether the parts are going to be built by the suppliers that are most capable and best experienced to do so in the production volumes that they are talking about.

There is another upstart vehicle manufacturer that some folks might have heard of ... Tesla. Guess what ... those cars are built using parts sourced from the same parts manufacturers that everyone else uses, and I have customers that build parts for those cars..."

Any thoughts about this comment?

This does have insight to it, thanks for posting it. I see two major topics: the production equipment, and the parts suppliers. Other folks have addressed the production equipment for Elio.

For the parts suppliers, I don't know how long they require to make and deliver their parts. We've been told that a large portion of the Elio's parts have already been designed and produced for other vehicles, since they are off-the-shelf. Elio has 37,000+ reservations so far. When does the gas cap supplier need to know that Elio will order hundreds of gas caps for JIT vehicle production? You would know better than us. Is it two months? 5 months?

I am not an Elio fanatic, I have my eyes wide open and want to know the truth. I believe many folks on this forum are like that too.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Also keep in mind there are two extremes to start up production:
1. Flip the switch and everything works. Time is minimal.
2. Start with nothing and set up the entire factory. Time is... Well, a lot.

GM already has in place chassis handling equipment, axle lifting and placement, engine handling equipment, etc. Most of this was operated by a human who guided things via joystick. That will still happen even though the components are different size/shape. The molding, forging, and forming operations will be more difficult. It is my understanding that the body panels will be delivered to Elio. The frame will have to be manufactured on-site. The engine will have to be forged, machined, and assembled. That will, indeed, be the long pole in the tent. As long as suppliers can keep up with quantity, quality, and timeliness, the engine and frame are the only two components that ELIO REALLY needs to concentrate on as far as process control is concerned. Sure, there are a million little details but, just as GM did, most of this is simple assembly with minimal "robots" involved. "Bob, grab a red fender for me and two fasteners." "Billy, this next one is an AMT. Grab the pedal box that has the clutch in it." Each person does a 52 second or shorter job.

Sorry... kind of went in a tangent there. My engineering background always comes out. "You know honey, if you dried the dishes on the other side of the sink, it would save you having to reach (SMACK) ... nevermind."

LOL, good stuff and good humor Ty. The engine and the frame, interesting. And good to get your insight of what happens on a typical production line.

 

[ecdriver711]

The federal government will not let a three wheeled vehicle be classified as an automobile. So hay, better for buyers like us.

 

[Mike W]

TE, Welcome! Yup lots of questions with answers that we aren't aware of. In my world failure is always an option. With that said, my wife and I wanted to get involved for several reasons. Practically speaking, a car with what Elio promises for $6800 (or somewhere in that neighborhood)? You'd have to be crazy to pass it up! Other reasons we became involved was we saw a vehicle that achieves some impressive goals, high MPG- lower gas consumption by 1000s of drivers, jobs for Americans and, ok, a fun little buggy. We knew it was a risk and put "all in" money at a level we could afford to lose, but we wanted to be part of something we saw not only benefiting us but the country as well. Risky? Yup. Possible success? Yup again. You have to remember, Paul E is a first timer at this whole process but from every I've seen he takes things a step at a time and is careful about what the next step is. I would like more info too, but since I'm not an investor (nope, money down for a car doesn't qualify me for that lofty title) I don't expect any special insider info. I'm not saying I wouldn't like it, I just don't expect it. So I guess in short it's time to keep your arms inside the car at all times and enjoy the ride! Who knows where it will end up? There's a bunch of us that bought the same E ticket (you need to go back a ways to know about them!)! Yee Haaaw!

 

[Rickb]

This does have insight to it, thanks for posting it. I see two major topics: the production equipment, and the parts suppliers. Other folks have addressed the production equipment for Elio.

For the parts suppliers, I don't know how long they require to make and deliver their parts. We've been told that a large portion of the Elio's parts have already been designed and produced for other vehicles, since they are off-the-shelf. Elio has 37,000+ reservations so far. When does the gas cap supplier need to know that Elio will order hundreds of gas caps for JIT vehicle production? You would know better than us. Is it two months? 5 months?

I am not an Elio fanatic, I have my eyes wide open and want to know the truth. I believe many folks on this forum are like that too.

Gas cap supplier......hundreds or thousands of gas caps for the Elio. lol

 

[JEBar]

Gas cap supplier......hundreds or thousands of gas caps for the Elio. lol

over time hundreds of thousands ..

Jim