Other Technologies That Will Need To Adapt

[Dusty921]

o_O

Ron White says he buys his dad ginkgo biloba, so he can remember what it was like to have an.............

 

[ross]

I'm retired fem NY, thought about GA but too many rednecks for me. (lol)

But more on topic- if the front 2 tires are different size than back, it will be to our advantage when we need to replace 'em, lots of stores (even pep boys) "buy 3 get the 4th free" maybe in the fine print it might not be allowed but buy 2 for the front and two for the rear-since I think the fronts will wear faster than the rear the saved rear from previous purchase will now only require the purchase of two fronts. Yes I see the problem, after the first change, there will be no way to get the extra 4th tire home in an Elio!!

Fold the back seat down (or remove it) slide the drivers seat forward fold the seat back forward, put the tire in through the door, slide the drivers seat back and you're on your way.
Ask any old air-cooled VW beetle owner and they can show you how to load a small car.

 

[wheaters]

Wheaters, you're a racer so this will hit home if you think about it.

Run flat technology has some real inherent drawbacks. The extremely rigid sidewall construction makes adhesion somewhat of an all or none proposition. On any unstable surface, ie water, snow, ice, oil and even sand they can break loose very suddenly and cause immediate loss of control. Sidewall flex provided by normal profile tires result in much a more forgiving and predictable contact patch and maintenance of vehicle control. Run flats In cold weather, you best not venture out at all. The marked additional un-sprung weight will drastically effect performance and fuel economy. Three run flats could weigh near 15% of the total weight of a 1500lb Elio. They are hard riding, noisy, enormously expensive and difficult to find in stock. Oh and by the way drive on them for more than a fraction of the100 mile range they brag about and their totally ruined.

Yea, I know BMW swears by run flats, but they've spent millions developing a suspension specifically designed around them. BMW owners trade before they need new tires anyway. Besides, we all know how them Germans love reinventing the wheel. By the by, my last name is Durst, so I can say anything I want about "Krauts" and it's not profiling.

IMHO, If run flat tires or the current rage of 20" plus wheels and 2" profile tires were such great ideas, why do you suppose that F1, Nascar, Indy Car and other sanctioning bodies won't go near them?

Dusty

So you're not so keen on run flats, then?

Nor am I, if there's a better alternative.

I have a BMW 330D which has them (35 profile). The rears will need replacing soon and I will be looking at alternatives to run flats. I think most people are aware of the logic of fitting them and the objections against. I've just bought a set of four winter tyres for one car for less than the price of one for the BMW! I will be keeping the BMW, btw, because it's such a good machine. My last one was fifteen years old when I traded it in and I'd bought at least three sets of new tires for it. None of them were run flats, because the car wasn't designed for them.

Given a choice, every time I would carry a full sized spare wheel with an identical tire to those already on the car. I bought another alloy wheel for my previous car and fitted it with a proper tire to replace the factory supplied "space saver" spare. My logic being that I can easily change a wheel at the roadside and due to the nature of my job, I need to drive long distances on the motorway, usually in a hurry, and I don't want to have to limp along at space saver speeds or worse, have to wait for a breakdown truck to take my car to a tire shop, only to find that a tire is going to have to be ordered and won't be available till tomorrow or the day after. The extra weight penalty of carrying a full sized spare is well worth it in my case; I think manufacturers overstate the case about not supplying them..

But the Elio doesn't have room for one. If one of the tires becomes damaged so that a can of fix-a-flat can't help, then what? Breakdown truck.....

The Elio is designed to be a relatively low performance, high mileage commuter car. It's in a different league to a BMW as far as high speed cornering is concerned. As far as "sudden breakaway" of run flats is concerned, it's a matter of driving any vehicle within its limits. My Liege has crossply/ bias belt tyres on it. I drive it very differently to my other cars because I've discovered their limits and always bear them in mind.

I think you'll find the reason that racing teams don't use run flats is that the race regulations don't allow them, at least in F1 that's true. The regulating body decides exactly which tires are used, even down to the manufacturer and how many sets can be used in any one race. The pit stops for tire changes are regarded as an intrinsic part of the sport.

 

[Dusty921]

So you're not so keen on run flats, then?

Nor am I, if there's a better alternative.

I have a BMW 330D which has them (35 profile). The rears will need replacing soon and I will be looking at alternatives to run flats. I think most people are aware of the logic of fitting them and the objections against. I've just bought a set of four winter tyres for one car for less than the price of one for the BMW! I will be keeping the BMW, btw, because it's such a good machine. My last one was fifteen years old when I traded it in and I'd bought at least three sets of new tires for it. None of them were fun flats, because the car wasn't designed for them.

Given a choice, every time I would carry a full sized spare wheel with an identical tire to those already on the car. I bought another alloy wheel for my previous car and fitted it with a proper tire to replace the factory supplied "space saver" spare. My logic being that I can easily change a wheel at the roadside and due to the nature of my job, I need to drive long distances on the motorway, usually in a hurry, and I don't want to have to limp along at space saver speeds or worse, have to wait for a breakdown truck to take my car to a tire shop, only to find that a tire is going to have to be ordered and won't be available till tomorrow or the day after. The extra weight penalty of carrying a full sized spare is well worth it in my case; I think manufacturers overstate the case about not supplying them.. But the Elio doesn't have room for one. If one of the tires becomes damaged so that a can of fix-a-flat can't help, then what? Breakdown truck.....

The Elio is designed to be a relatively low performance, high mileage commuter car. It's in a different league to a BMW as far as high speed cornering is concerned. As far as "sudden breakaway" of run flats is concerned, it's a matter of driving any vehicle within its limits. My Liege has crossply/ bias belt tyres on it. I drive it very differently to my other cars because I've discovered their limits and always bear them in mind.

I think you'll find the reason that racing teams don't use run flats is that the race regulations don't allow them, at least in F1 that's true. The regulating body decides exactly which tires are used, even down to the manufacturer and how many sets can be used in any one race. The pit stops for tire changes are regarded as an intrinsic part of the sport.

Wheaters,

We appear to be on the same page, however you and I are among a dying breed of informed drivers. Most on the road today are way to absorbed in their smartphones, lunch, makeup and the like to be bothered with the limitations and capabilities of the lethal weapon they are aiming at those around them. We share the advantages of many years of racing and transferring that experience, knowledge and learned skills.to the public byways. Sadly, my friend those days have come and gone, I feel certain that you set up for every turn in the road like I do with signaling, proper throttle, brake, steering input, roll through, throttle again regimens that put us in control of our vehicle and safer participants.

Regulations are changed easily, technology can and does make changes in them regularly. All I have learned about tire & chassis setup tells me that in order to have a racecar handle at it's optimum you have to put all of the rubber you can muster on the road and a stiff sidewall tire just doesn't allow for that to happen. Therefore, I believe that flexible sidewall technology is more adaptable to the rigor of racing than run flat, and way more forgiving for the uninformed daily commuter. IMHO

So, back to run flats, no I don't like them and space savers are a ticking time bomb. I too have full sized spare tires on all of my four wheeled conveyances. motorcycles, and Elio are destined for the "Break down Truck". "is what it is".

I love that Liege!! bet it's a hoot to drive.

 

[wheaters]

Yes, I think we're on the same page. As far as I can tell, run flats weren't primarily designed to race on, they were designed to get people to a tire shop after a puncture without having to risk their necks trying to change a wheel in traffic. But it seems some manufacturers have jumped on the bandwagon, quoting weight reduction and how it will improve fuel consumption. But I suspect the main advantage to them is cost reduction. My BMW has the battery where the spare wheel ought to be; it's a lumping great one so there's no chance of me putting it elsewhere.

I can understand Elio not wanting to include a spare because the weight of an extra wheel will be a significant increase and of course there isn't anywhere to store one.

The Liege is an amazing little car. It's the one that I will never willingly part with, although having built it myself gives it that extra attraction, I suppose. It can be used for everyday travel, for Tarmac competitions, off road competitions and for touring. We've done all of these things, without having to change the setup of the car. Brilliant stuff. All it needs is some more power, now in hand via a Geo Metro engine conversion.

 

[Jay3wheel]

I knew there was a reason I liked you, just love to stir the pot, don't you.

It's my pot as much as it is theirs.

 

[zelio]

I just had a thought as I was reading the above posts. For those people who truly may need a real spare tire, would it be possible to design a tire holder on the non-door side similar to those seen in old classic cars. I realize it would reduce mpg but if you live a long way from any source of a tire or are traveling, say on the Al-Can highway, a small loss in mpg might be worth the safety of having the extra tire. Just a thought. It just seems with the front wheels already "outriggers" this might work. Any comments on this idea? :-) Z

 

[Joshua Caldwell]

I'm glad I had a real spare tire today thanks to a nail... why do these things only happen when it rains and after the tire repair places have closed for the weekend? I get to use the spare until Monday.

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

I'm glad I had a real spare tire today thanks to a nail... why do these things only happen when it rains and after the tire repair places have closed for the weekend? I get to use the spare until Monday.

Because it doesn't get to -30° down there. That's when bad stuff usually happens up here.

 

[wheaters]

I just had a thought as I was reading the above posts. For those people who truly may need a real spare tire, would it be possible to design a tire holder on the non-door side similar to those seen in old classic cars. I realize it would reduce mpg but if you live a long way from any source of a tire or are traveling, say on the Al-Can highway, a small loss in mpg might be worth the safety of having the extra tire. Just a thought. It just seems with the front wheels already "outriggers" this might work. Any comments on this idea? Z

Why not fit a pair of them on the back? I'm sure it can be done.