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Financing Elio Motors Development And Production

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whattheelf

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Jeff Porter said:
Hi EC, not that it matters that much, but most cars that I see being produced have bigger than 15" rims. Seems like 16" and 17" is the norm, as early as 3-5 yrs ago. Just my observation, no facts to back it up.
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15" tires aren't necessarily a problem, possibly width may cause some handling concerns, potentially skittish at higher speeds. Haven't seen any road test reviews on how it handles, but those third party reports would fairly note any concerns. I do expect that beyond early adopters, there may be too much of adjustment for most people to feel comfortable with, may feel too claustrophobic or leaving many feeling too exposed or feeling too surrounded, that and adjusting to the front wheel outrigger type geometry, this is not like getting into a motorcycle, nor a car.

The Elf that I have on order does not compete with an Elio, and is much more exposed, and does not ride in traffic lanes, as it is mostly a bicycle, a three wheeler with the similar two wheels up front, but its an electric assist pedal recumbent, a niche within a niche, and does not have a full enclosure, no side doors yet. It is however a great grocery getter, to get a little more of a pedal workout added to my cycling routine, and you can actually buy one too, it was a successful kickstarter vehicle which is where I spotted it, and there nearly a half dozen of these to take group rides with here time to time for fun, and its not going to change the world.

During the late 50s thru early 60s mostly,there were many brands of micro-car vehicles introduced, many of them 3 wheelers, like the BMW Isetta , or the tandem setup Messerschmidt, were fairly popular initially, offering a very low price, high mpgs, at the time, but they were not for the masses, even on the much less congested roads of the times. The smaller makers soon disappeared, the larger makers sold a bit longer into very narrow niche markets, and the market masses migrated to larger vehicles, or what was fashionable. Americans are fickle by nature, even the masses want the next great thing all the time, and are not necessarily loyal as they may have been, because of the pace of change today. That said, BMW has been toying with remaking a modern Isetta, this time a 4 wheeler, you can google the fantastic concepts of it, I'd buy one in a heartbeat if they do, and it won't be electric was the initial thought.

The gist of the Jordan Perch comment therefore, really represents the EM conundrum, getting to volume sales, via what dealerships, when, and who is going to fund a buildout of those dealerships, plus in dealer inventory to have on hand to build confidence that convinces the masses the size of who buy the Honda Civic today, to buy an alternative like an Elio instead.

Their survival really doesn't depend on if they can get this first production launch funding, which is mostly to deliver on the reservations, but they need a hockey stick major cash flow in order to support this infrastructure buildout, which requires major volume sales, its a big chicken and egg problem, which is way way before they even hit profitability. So the issue here is how to convince just the first round funders to believe that there are major volume orders, without most dealers in place, etc etc, and if they even believe the masses will be comfortable in, and can adjust to driving and Elio, its a big risk. Most early adopters will buy one out of curiousity, without knowing how it drives first, and like most early adopters, they have dispensable cash to take the chance, just for fun, and early adopters are not the masses.

It was interesting watching Paul Elio on Fox and Friends on April 28, the Elio looked impressive, the TV hosts were impressed with it, and it was good press. But, if you picked up on the dialogue, you can watch it on youtube, Paul wasn't pitching the Elio as an alternative, he was pitching it another vehicle to add to what you already own, so you "keep your SUV", verbatim. Interesting pitch, when you only have 30 seconds to convince people, and what that really does is tell people its a toy fun vehicle, not a replacement for what you currently drive. Was fairly clear Paul is not the pitch man you want on national TV pitching this, they need someone telling people, this is the next peoples' car.

So, we shall see where this goes, if even into first production.
 
JNR

JNR

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whattheelf said:
snipped.....The Elf that I have on order does not compete with an Elio, and is much more exposed, and does not ride in traffic lanes, as it is mostly a bicycle, a three wheeler with the similar two wheels up front, but its an electric assist pedal recumbent, a niche within a niche, and does not have a full enclosure, no side doors yet. It is however a great grocery getter, to get a little more of a pedal workout added to my cycling routine, and you can actually buy one too, it was a successful kickstarter vehicle which is where I spotted it, and there nearly a half dozen of these to take group rides with here time to time for fun, and its not going to change the world.
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It all comes back to me now, you are a fan of the Elf vehicle, there was an article about this in the Hampshire Gazette awhile back. The Elf is fine for Cambridge, Northampton, Berkeley and the like. Now I see why you aren't so high on the Elio, The Elf business model is completely different. I'm not saying the Elio is a lock or perfect, but raining on their parade here all day seems odd to me. I don't go to Elf forums and talk about how utterly useless the thing is for anyone that has to drive out of a nice little city downtown.
 
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whattheelf

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JNR said:
It all comes back to me now, you are a fan of the Elf vehicle, there was an article about this in the Hampshire Gazette awhile back. The Elf is fine for Cambridge, Northampton, Berkeley and the like. Now I see why you aren't so high on the Elio, The Elf business model is completely different. I'm not saying the Elio is a lock or perfect, but raining on their parade here all day seems odd to me. I don't go to Elf forums and talk about how utterly useless the thing is for anyone that has to drive out of a nice little city downtown.
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The Elf has nothing in common with the Elio except for the 3 wheel configuration, they wouldn't compete against each other even if the Elio someday launches.

This whole thread is about EM funding, not whether or not I am high or not on the Elio, which I actually like, and would buy if it hits production and I can test drive one someday at a dealer, so its hardly utterly useless, at least for me, I just want one, and would use it, but I don't need one either.

The issue here is the continued lackluster execution on reaching anywhere near the funding they need to ship the first run, to those with reservations. Without 3x more cash than they have now, there is no Elio for anyone, except the Elio T shirts you get to keep.

Without rapidly implemented numerous dealers thereafter for the general public to go to, requiring yet even greater funds, there are no volume sales to keep the operation going, thus no volume production, no dealer buildout, just a ton of growing overhead and burn rate, and no return on investment. I don't make these things up, this is the reality how volume business works, like it or not.

I keep an eye on Elio because I want one, hoping someone on one of these forums or on Facebook has some sort of inside line on some much needed positive news, but so far next to nothing is building confidence in this company, because the only thing thats looking good here is just the prototype.
 
jetpack54

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Folks said:
The single best lesson to learn in politics once and for all: 95 percent of all this garbage about green is to generate and leverage enough falsely perceived problems as to then place oneself as the solution and thus continue a privileged life as a politician. Us citizens are but to stay dumb and stupid and to buy into all this National media driven green propaganda stuff. That is not to say conserving and saving resources is not a good idea. It's the expounding of constant lies and extortion to extent that the Pres waists billions just to fund his crony friends in give-a-ways like Solyndra. I'm ashamed to claim Al Gore as from my State he's but a talking blow hard who is swimming in the lie and the resultant snake oil sales routine.
The truth is that gasoline is and will be for the foreseeable future the single most abundant, inexpensive, and most BTU saturated fuel source on the planet. A president pious enough to manipulate petroleum, coal and gas with trumped up and false accusations and regulations just to support the green propaganda lie has something other than the best interest of this nation in mind. And once again you the voting public have no clue of the damage he does every day.
"Whattheelf" The builder of the "Elf" is nothing more than a liberal feeling sorry for the masses again and just about as appropriate as your president's and most liberal solutions. The elf builder even buys all the green propaganda garbage.

The single best thing about the Elio is that it touches a nerve in this nation that is looking for a real and practical solution. Rational Frugal transportation at a better than reasonable price with mostly American parts for permanent serviceability (pretty and fun to drive to boot). I see nothing else that comes close to the measure the Elio in this. Guess what? It conserves more fuel than the green freaks too. The Elf doesn't count because it simply wont survive in traffic.
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Well said. All electric transportation sad to say will be for the most part a toy vehicle for the well to do. Owners of Tesla and the likes buys it because it's cool not because they want to save money and it's obvious if they can shell out $50-60,000. Other electric cars are just not for the masses that's looking for affordable means of transportation. Range anxiety will always be it's downfall. And good luck waiting for other alternative fuel like hydrogen because it's years away from being affordable enough for the general consumers to buy. Then comes the genius of Paul Elio who comes up with his reverse gasoline trike. Not fancy, no new technology...just a more aerodynamically designed vehicle with an efficient 3 cylinder engine. And it's no secret Paul Elio says it won't replace your existing SUV's...any normal thinking human being can see that....it's for those demographics who wants a vehicle that'll take them from point A to point B with less gas. Well, 84 mpg could mean a lot of savings for us working people that drives 5 times or more a week! How much demand will Elio generate once it's in full production??? You be the judge but here's some stats:
A new analysis of data collected from 2005, yes 9 years ago, found driving the car to work was foremost the means of commuting for 9 out of 10 workers, 77% DRIVE ALONE! Americans hold on to the luxury of the solitary drive to work and this is spite of the rising fuel cost. There are 208 million licensed drivers in the US in 2008, that's a huge market that can use the ELIO for every day commute! Add Europe who love small vehicles for their narrow streets and Asia who uses a lot of motorized tricycles including China and India that likes gas sipping vehicles. So Paul Elio and his team are the least worried about the demand....it's how much they can produce to meet those demands! So my fellow Elio enthusiasts, rest assured that it's place in the automotive world is secured! ;)
 
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