Possible Futures Of Ev's And-or Fuel Cells.

Rickb said:

I don't get your persistent connection of one's interest in or purchase of an EV to the rich and or elite crowd. There seems to be an adequate supply of ICE luxury or high performance sports cars for that demographic that goes way beyond electric. EVs will come down in price as they gain in popularity by those having interest in alternative energy vehicles.

Electric vehicles and their development deserve as much opportunity for ATVM low interest loan funding, and or any other government tax incentives as does any alternative energy or technically advanced vehicle class like the Elio. EM has it's fair share of local, state, and hopefully federal DOE involvement to assist in getting the Elio to production. Al Gore would have a genuine interest and support the effort to get the Elio in the hands of the average family that needs it irregardless of what he can personally afford to drive, fly, sail, or live in. Multiple choice question: which vehicle would your defined elite class more likely have parked in their driveways:
(A). View attachment 6027 (B). View attachment 6028 (C). View attachment 6029 (D). View attachment 6030

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Rick, I have no problem with EVs per se. I do however have a problem with the $7500 tax credit that you get to encourage you to buy one. That money comes from my pocket also. And I sure can't afford to buy something like that with all of it's limitations. Even with a $7500 tax credit.

I wonder about the feasibility of ordering the Elio without a drivetrain for the EV conversion. That would be a shocker special request for the EM on line order desk and the line workers. Certainly would save a few dollars in parts and tear out labor in the ev conversion process. That darn affordability factor takes away some of the fun. The EV club sounds like a fun group!

Rickb said:

Tesla Motors is far ahead in the EV game.

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Probably not nearly as far ahead as you think

GM Targets Tesla With 200-Mile Bolt EV Mantra: 'For Regular People, Not Elites'

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...-bolt-ev-mantra-for-regular-people-not-elites

WilliamH said:

Rick, I have no problem with EVs per se. I do however have a problem with the $7500 tax credit that you get to encourage you to buy one. That money comes from my pocket also. And I sure can't afford to buy something like that with all of it's limitations. Even with a $7500 tax credit.

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William, I respect that answer over the elitiest response. Nor can I afford an EV, however, I believe the tax credit option provides incentive for those to buy EV's that otherwise might not be able to afford them. This allows the technology to develop to a point where the EV alternative becomes more advanced and more affordable for future potential owners and I may be one. I am open to and recognize the importance of alternative vehicle and energy requirements to insure future energy supplies and perhaps have some minor or major influence on the environment. EVs are too efficent to ignore even though charged off the electrical power grid.

It's no different than government getting behind the development of the Elio, not every taxpayer has an interest in the Elio and may prefer their tax dollars be spent elsewhere. Personally, I feel it's government doing what it should to promote a variety of future options and opportunities. There are evs (Leaf) for the average guy and evs (Tesla Model S) for the 1%. Whatever works as we have little control and we could all be brainwashed in our beliefs.

satx said:

Probably not nearly as far ahead as you think

GM Targets Tesla With 200-Mile Bolt EV Mantra: 'For Regular People, Not Elites'

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...-bolt-ev-mantra-for-regular-people-not-elites

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My take on Tesla Motors is that Tesla opened to the public all their development patents last year. Other car brands may now use Tesla's advanced EV engineering technology, a good thing. Tesla Motors is building their Gigafactory for battery production which will have the capacity to produce a larger number of batteries than required for their own Tesla brand vehicles so who is their target market for the overflow battery production? Tesla is also building a super charging network across the country, more chargers than needed to meet the needs of their own Tesla Brand customers so who is their target market for the quick charge?
Tesla is leading as it will no doubt be selling their competiton affordable batteries with a quick charge network in place to charge them at a fair profit. Tesla has to go beyond the EV car manufacturing market to be wildly profitable. Elon Musk is a man with a vision for the future.

Tesla's 2017 Model 3 should be a competitive class of EV in the $35K price range with an extended battery range of 250 + miles for the people. Although, the Elio is still the vehicle for the real people demographic.

Rickb said:

William, I respect that answer over the elitiest response. Nor can I afford an EV, however, I believe the tax credit option provides incentive for those to buy EV's that otherwise might not be able to afford them. This allows the technology to develop to a point where the EV alternative becomes more advanced and more affordable for future potential owners and I may be one. I am open to and recognize the importance of alternative vehicle and energy requirements to insure future energy supplies and perhaps have some minor or major influence on the environment. EVs are too efficent to ignore even though charged off the electrical power grid.

It's no different than government getting behind the development of the Elio, not every taxpayer has an interest in the Elio and may prefer their tax dollars be spent elsewhere. Personally, I feel it's government doing what it should to promote a variety of future options and opportunities. There are evs (Leaf) for the average guy and evs (Tesla Model S) for the 1%. Whatever works as we have little control and we could all be brainwashed in our beliefs.

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Rick, The government already made a low interest loan to Mr. Musk for the Tesla which led to the production of a $70K plus electric vehicle. They made a low interest loan to Fisker which went belly up. They also made loans to Ford and Nisan to expand plants and in Fords case to develop the EcoBoost engine.
I have no problem with those loans. They all help employment in the United States. Pretty much in the same way a similar "loan" would help Elio and improve employment in the Arklatex and help the GDP of the US.
The $7500 tax credit helps only individual people who live places where EVs make some sense which is not necessarily a reasonable or desirable thing to do.

Just wanted to add some data showing the state of the art for EV conversions.. The EV album is a great place to cruise around for that info. IT's all about price vs range. Here's the range and link for the top 100mpg's listed after #4690. Just too long to look at it all in one sitting.

333mi http://www.evalbum.com/5006 $98k Tesla S
300mi(est) http://www.evalbum.com/4696
280mi http://www.evalbum.com/4899
230mi http://www.evalbum.com/5048 ESpeedster
230mi http://www.evalbum.com/49972012 Fisker Karma
160mi http://www.evalbum.com/4874
150mi http://www.evalbum.com/4852

138mi http://www.evalbum.com/5035
134mi http://www.evalbum.com/4792
129mi http://www.evalbum.com/4986 prius
125mi http://www.evalbum.com/4714
124mi http://www.evalbum.com/4973
124mi http://www.evalbum.com/4972
122mi http://www.evalbum.com/4971
120mi http://www.evalbum.com/4713
120mi http://www.evalbum.com/5060
124mi http://www.evalbum.com/4829
110mi http://www.evalbum.com/4926
106mi http://www.evalbum.com/4765

100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4872
100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4989
100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4944
100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4919
100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4794
100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4715
100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4725
100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4759
100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4690
100mi http://www.evalbum.com/4697

interesting http://www.evalbum.com/4999

WilliamH said:

Rick, The government already made a low interest loan to Mr. Musk for the Tesla which led to the production of a $70K plus electric vehicle. They made a low interest loan to Fisker which went belly up. They also made loans to Ford and Nisan to expand plants and in Fords case to develop the EcoBoost engine.
I have no problem with those loans. They all help employment in the United States. Pretty much in the same way a similar "loan" would help Elio and improve employment in the Arklatex and help the GDP of the US.
The $7500 tax credit helps only individual people who live places where EVs make some sense which is not necessarily a reasonable or desirable thing to do.

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Keep in mind the reasoning/logic behind the Federal and State tax credits being offered. It creates incentives to increase the development, increase sales, and the use of alternative fuel vehicles to diversify the fuels used in the transportation sector as well as support greater energy security, reduce greenhouse gas emissions and provide price stability. The Elio will in fact have a similar impact. It seems reasonable and desireable to deal with real issues we or at least my grandkids may face to meet their future transportation needs. EVs have a place for some people particularly those commuting in high density urban environments.

I want a base Elio and or a retrofit custom high performance EV Elio for the pure fun factor........nothing more nothing less.

Rickb said:

William, I respect that answer over the elitiest response. Nor can I afford an EV, however, I believe the tax credit option provides incentive for those to buy EV's that otherwise might not be able to afford them. This allows the technology to develop to a point where the EV alternative becomes more advanced and more affordable for future potential owners and I may be one. I am open to and recognize the importance of alternative vehicle and energy requirements to insure future energy supplies and perhaps have some minor or major influence on the environment. EVs are too efficent to ignore even though charged off the electrical power grid.

It's no different than government getting behind the development of the Elio, not every taxpayer has an interest in the Elio and may prefer their tax dollars be spent elsewhere. Personally, I feel it's government doing what it should to promote a variety of future options and opportunities. There are evs (Leaf) for the average guy and evs (Tesla Model S) for the 1%. Whatever works as we have little control and we could all be brainwashed in our beliefs.

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There is a significant difference between the AVTM Loan and a tax credit to fund EV's The loan is paid back by Elio. The tax credit is a subsidy to the buyer of an EV paid by all the tax payers who cannot afford to buy an EV. For EV's to ultimately be successful they will have to be economically competitive without government subsidies. Unlike subsidies the loan actually produces some level of income to the government

The conventional EV choices today are extremely limited . Volt , Tesla BMW etc . Limited by cost and performance . Over the next decade with new trade agreements in place , China will lead the world in low cost EV cars and trucks . Not inconceivable to see Chinese E cars sold at Walmart .
Regrettably , over the same time period , we may all live to see GM and Ford go the way of Packard and Nash . Legacy pensions add over 30% to the price of a new vehicle and as people are living longer , this will have a Greece effect on big US auto. This would be too long a post to predict what Detroit will look like in the coming decade .
Thank Goodness for Elio and an American option that can compete .