What Is The Status Of The Atvm Loan?

[Maurtis]

You are, of course, correct. I forgot about the torque being available at zero RPM. That makes my project a little more doable.

True, I put a 1HP industrial motor on my son's go-kart and it will do a wheelstand if he is on pavement. Just spins its wheels on grass but is a lot more fun. Doing that with a 1HP gas motor would have to be geared so far down it would not break walking speed.

 

[Rob Croson]

You are, of course, correct. I forgot about the torque being available at zero RPM. That makes my project a little more doable.

An electric powered rear wheel as an add-on would be pretty cool.

 

[Ty]

True, I put a 1HP industrial motor on my son's go-kart and it will do a wheelstand if he is on pavement. Just spins its wheels on grass but is a lot more fun. Doing that with a 1HP gas motor would have to be geared so far down it would not break walking speed.

Good to know. Would a 5HP electric motor be worth putting on the rear wheel of the Elio? Or even as a starter replacement type of hybrid? 5Hp isn't very much put it wouldn't require nearly the battery power either. I just want something that will help with starts and whittle down the 0-60 time a bit.

 

[AriLea]

Good to know. Would a 5HP electric motor be worth putting on the rear wheel of the Elio? Or even as a starter replacement type of hybrid? 5Hp isn't very much put it wouldn't require nearly the battery power either. I just want something that will help with starts and whittle down the 0-60 time a bit.

A matter that is often missed in EV discussions, with modern motors and controllers, they are very efficient ! at low outputs !. (as well as high)
At partial throttle an ICE engine has 'pumping losses'. So for efficiency we choose a smaller engine as much to save cost and weight but also to not lose too much from those pumping losses. The bigger engines have bigger losses.

So in EV's a (continuous rated) 5hp vs a 10hp, have very similar efficiency at all outputs, until the 5hp is maxed out.
Your considerations in this application
1) keep your weight reasonable
-with a stepped belt drive that could be anywhere from 2hp to 30hp(continuous) motors as a guess.
2) not so much power that it changes any over-steer/understeer characteristics (unless you want that)
-in a street -non-sport use- I'd say never exceed the peak power of the elio, maybe keep it to half.
3) enough HP to accomplish your goal, at maybe at least 10hp peak, yes?

So if the peak is 55hp, keep the ev-drive -peak- between 10hp to 27hp., lets say 25peak.
If the peak /vs/ continuous ratio holds up to 5x, you looking at a traction motor rated at 5hp continuous.
AC motors are typically 2x to 3x in that ratio, so at 3x, an AC motor rated at 9hp continuous.

Make sure you understand the continuous rating for that motor. 3minutes to overheat is not useful. 15-30minutes is more workable.
As you add more cooling to the ev motor the longer that time window widens.

 

[Ty]

A matter that is often missed in EV discussions, with modern motors and controllers, they are very efficient ! at low outputs !. (as well as high)
At partial throttle an ICE engine has 'pumping losses'. So for efficiency we choose a smaller engine as much to save cost and weight but also to not lose too much from those pumping losses. The bigger engines have bigger losses.

So in EV's a (continuous rated) 5hp vs a 10hp, have very similar efficiency at all outputs, until the 5hp is maxed out.
Your considerations in this application
1) keep your weight reasonable
-with a stepped belt drive that could be anywhere from 2hp to 30hp(continuous) motors as a guess.
2) not so much power that it changes any over-steer/understeer characteristics (unless you want that)
-in a street -non-sport use- I'd say never exceed the peak power of the elio, maybe keep it to half.
3) enough HP to accomplish your goal, at maybe at least 10hp peak, yes?

So if the peak is 55hp, keep the ev-drive -peak- between 10hp to 27hp., lets say 25peak.
If the peak /vs/ continuous ratio holds up to 5x, you looking at a traction motor rated at 5hp continuous.
AC motors are typically 2x to 3x in that ratio, so at 3x, an AC motor rated at 9hp continuous.

Make sure you understand the continuous rating for that motor. 3minutes to overheat is not useful. 15-30minutes is more workable.
As you add more cooling to the ev motor the longer that time window widens.

I was thinking that the Elio is VERY efficient at speed but not nearly as much in stop and go traffic. So, I thought that chipping away at that end of the spectrum would get the best results for the minimum dollar. I think most people will spend more time in "city" mode than in "highway" mode. Not all, of course. Would it be possible to have a lightweight electric motor and either capacitor/lightweight battery that would meaningfully contribute to start ups? I'm thinking a good little kick from 0-10 or 0-20mph to get the Elio moving. Then, let the ICE take over. It'd probably be easier to replace the stock alternator with an alternator/motor replacement and replace the battery with something a little more robust.

 

[AriLea]

I was thinking that the Elio is VERY efficient at speed but not nearly as much in stop and go traffic. So, I thought that chipping away at that end of the spectrum would get the best results for the minimum dollar. I think most people will spend more time in "city" mode than in "highway" mode. Not all, of course. Would it be possible to have a lightweight electric motor and either capacitor/lightweight battery that would meaningfully contribute to start ups? I'm thinking a good little kick from 0-10 or 0-20mph to get the Elio moving. Then, let the ICE take over. It'd probably be easier to replace the stock alternator with an alternator/motor replacement and replace the battery with something a little more robust.

That, plus what I tallied up prior very much points to a traction motor at 5hp continuous more or less. There would be a bit of research in getting it's control cycling correct. When to have power, when to not, when to recover/recharge etc.
I have a ETek AC motor right now, but I think that would be a little small for the purpose.

 

[slinches]

I think for a first attempt, a manual drive/regen rocker control on the shift lever would be simple and effective. That way, you have full authority over both systems without the need to move your hands between controls.

 

[booboo]

Article rehashing ATVM, and 2016 Gateway Conference.
The new part is the last paragraph calling Elio a three-wheeled masterpiece.
http://masterherald.com/elio-motors-says-increase-in-pre-order-price-of-e1a-is-part-of-its-requirements-of-loan-with-energy-department/44507/2/

 

[Rickb]

Article rehashing ATVM, and 2016 Gateway Conference.
The new part is the last paragraph calling Elio a three-wheeled masterpiece.
http://masterherald.com/elio-motors-says-increase-in-pre-order-price-of-e1a-is-part-of-its-requirements-of-loan-with-energy-department/44507/2/

We all know the Elio has potential to be a three wheel masterpiece after the engineering specs are finalized, E's built and tested, tweaked, and reveal of the production Elio.

What I didn't know was that Elio Motors was an independent electric car maker.

I prefer to read actual test driver reviews, which have been less than positive. We call the auto critics hacks or Elio haters if their reviews are less than favorable. If we don't think the auto industry critics are credible, I propose we solicit EM to allow 2 of our Elio Forum members and reservation holders to test drive and write a review of their Elio performance and handling experiences. Coss and Ekh would be excellent candidates for the first EM invitational reservationist Elio ride, drive, and review event.

 

[bowers baldwin]

Article rehashing ATVM, and 2016 Gateway Conference.
The new part is the last paragraph calling Elio a three-wheeled masterpiece.
http://masterherald.com/elio-motors-says-increase-in-pre-order-price-of-e1a-is-part-of-its-requirements-of-loan-with-energy-department/44507/2/

"electric carmaker"
UGH...