What Is The Status Of The Atvm Loan?

[Maurtis]

You'll see a turbo Elio sooner than an EV or even a hybrid, because it can be done without major structural changes and with a clearly defined cost difference. That would allow the car to appeal to a different market, but without all the design and start-up costs associated with a radically different car.

That is the one I am after. Small but zippy. THAT is the Elio that excites me! Gimme gimme gimme... 100+ WHP of tire smoking AWESOME. With a warranty

LOL, okay, it will more realistically be closer to 80 WHP, tire chirping AWESOME. We can tune more power and maybe throw in some meth injection once we get tired of having a warranty.

A little off topic... uh... yes, the ATVM loan. I hope the ATVM loan comes through so EM does not have to give up too much to get private funding and paves the way for my turbo Elio AWESOME.

 

[Ty]

That is the one I am after. Small but zippy. THAT is the Elio that excites me! Gimme gimme gimme... 100+ WHP of tire smoking AWESOME. With a warranty

LOL, okay, it will more realistically be closer to 80 WHP, tire chirping AWESOME. We can tune more power and maybe throw in some meth injection once we get tired of having a warranty.

A little off topic... uh... yes, the ATVM loan. I hope the ATVM loan comes through so EM does not have to give up too much to get private funding and paves the way for my turbo Elio AWESOME.

In lieu of a turbo, I'm just going to put a bleach spray nozzle in front of each tire to spray the ground right where the tire sits. Even with 55 HP, I should then be able to sit and spin. It won't make the car any faster but it WILL seem to be!

(Totally kidding, by the way. I want a turbo! or a rear wheel electric motor with just enough juice to assist the car with starting... Say, a 50HP motor with a range of about 100 feet will do the trick.)

 

[Sethodine]

In lieu of a turbo, I'm just going to put a bleach spray nozzle in front of each tire to spray the ground right where the tire sits. Even with 55 HP, I should then be able to sit and spin. It won't make the car any faster but it WILL seem to be!

(Totally kidding, by the way. I want a turbo! or a rear wheel electric motor with just enough juice to assist the car with starting... Say, a 50HP motor with a range of about 100 feet will do the trick.)

Perhaps a 12kw electric motor with a single deep-cycle marine lead-acid battery. That is entirely doable, if that is your only goal

 

[Ty]

Perhaps a 12kw electric motor with a single deep-cycle marine lead-acid battery. That is entirely doable, if that is your only goal

That is about what I'm thinking... just a little more oomph off the start. I'd like that 0-60 time to be down quite a bit. I've seen hub motors that are designed to be retrofitted into cars but the research was done a while ago so they must have hit a snag prior to production. Anyway, if you had a battery that you could recharge overnight and it just gave a good push. I was thinking the rear tire but a more simple answer may be to pull the starter and put an electric motor there instead. It won't take much to get the car started. You could just put in a more robust battery up front or perhaps replace the stock one and add another somewhere... maybe in the rear.

http://www.goldenmotor.com/

(50Kw is 67 HP and 80 NM is 59 lb ft of torque though max output is 160NM which is 116 lb ft)

For the weight conscious, that's... 86 lbs!
72V... So, add in 6 batteries?
How much battery would you need for a day of acceleration from stops? I would think a 10 mile range would be more than enough... How much battery will it take to power the 50Kw motor for, say, 20 minutes? I only need it to run for about 15 seconds at a time...

 

[Rob Croson]

Design the motor right, and when you are traveling at speed, the motor can become a generator and charge the battery for you. Then build the motor and battery into the wheel, and it could become a direct-replacement drop-in for any Elio!

 

[Marshall]

I already drive the Hybrid you guys are lusting after. But that vehicle won't qualify for the ATVM loan after you get through with it.

First things first. Build the high mileage economy car first. Then make your Eliorod.

 

[AriLea]

Design the motor right, and when you are traveling at speed, the motor can become a generator and charge the battery for you. Then build the motor and battery into the wheel, and it could become a direct-replacement drop-in for any Elio!

That is best with a brake switch, to only recharge from braking recovery. Nominal recharging should be from the generator.

The reason is, hmm how can I explain? Think of nominal recharging at the rear wheel as if you were using the engine to recharge batteries but with a huge rubber-vbelt-band going from the engine through the tranny, trough the front tires, through the ground then to the rear end, through that rear-tire and then into the rear motor and back to the batteries. Basically it's kind of like that.

If you use the rear motor to recharge exclusively in normal cruise mode, a bit of extra friction from the charging load is bound up though the gears and tires via the road, ie all added on top of the normal drive-train friction, but doubled. The extra elasticity is a energy absorber too.

Directly from the generator is more efficient. I imagine a sedan sized or heavy duty generator can be swapped into place.

Recharging just when braking (regen) is nice because that's wasted energy anyway, simply recovered from momentum, and it saves brake pads as well.

 

[JohnSmithemail]

Electra Meccanica SOLO has now AC as an option

 

[slinches]

That is best with a brake switch, to only recharge from braking recovery. Nominal recharging should be from the generator.

The reason is, hmm how can I explain? Think of nominal recharging at the rear wheel as if you were using the engine to recharge batteries but with a huge rubber-vbelt-band going from the engine through the tranny, trough the front tires, through the ground then to the rear end, through that rear-tire and then into the rear motor and back to the batteries. Basically it's kind of like that.

If you use the rear motor to recharge exclusively in normal cruise mode, a bit of extra friction from the charging load is bound up though the gears and tires via the road, ie all added on top of the normal drive-train friction, but doubled. The extra elasticity is a energy absorber too.

Directly from the generator is more efficient. I imagine a sedan sized or heavy duty generator can be swapped into place.

Recharging just when braking (regen) is nice because that's wasted energy anyway, simply recovered from momentum, and it saves brake pads as well.

The recharge should be implemented as a regenerative braking feature for use when maintaining downhill speed or slowly decelerating before a stop. It could even be a separate brake lever, like it is on the Arcimoto.

 

[Ekh]

Well, nothing much would be involved in putting a small passenger door on the right rear. Nothing much, that is, but re-routing the exhaust, removing the right-side rear window, strengthening the frame, possibly elongating the entire vehicle. Oh, yea, and rerouting not just the gas-cap, but the entire gas tank, with its fill location, pipe AND gas cap. Which means conflicting with other stuff on the left side, such as seat belt strong points (maybe) and other structural members on the left side.

That sort of change has been giving Elio fits for a year or more; they are having enough trouble getting the exhaust system correct as it is. To put your door in on the right, you might have to re-do the entire exhaust manifold.

Look, every part of this car is connected to all the rest. It's a one-hoss-shay in that regard -- if you've never read the poem by Oliver Wendell Holmes, it's a bout a guy who got fed up with things breaking on his buggy, so he built a new one -- in which every single piece was as strong as the rest. It lasted 100 years and a day and then went poof to a pile of dust -- because while it couldn't break down, it could wear out.

The shay formed a complete system, and so does the Elio -- or darn near it. There's very little about that car that can be casually moved around.

I have photo restoration customers who ask me "can you cut this out of the picture?" I say sure, now what would you like me to put in its place? If you take something out, you have to put something else back in -- and that takes time and money, especially if I have to design the something else from scratch -- use a new part, in Elio-speak.

It's the same with the Elio. In the old days, cars had buckets of unused space. You could put a laundry machine in the engine compartment and a dryer in the trunk! But not today. The Elio has all the modern car components in literally half the space! That is a cram job, friends, and once you've got it all neatly packed in you MESS WITH IT AT YOUR PERIL.

Changes have to be thought through, evaluated, costed, tested and, at long last, implemented.

So your little door on the right is going to take a major overhaul of the whole damn car.

I wish you guys who want some other car would just go and buy one. This gets old.