Being all-in (#3419) and stock owner I have no option other than to wait it our and hopefully I'll live long enough to drive my Elio. If not my grandson will have the honor and pleasure.
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What Is The Latest Start Production Date?
- Thread starter grampi
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Brainmatter
Elio Addict
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
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"Paul Elio and most if not all of EM's Board members have long time connections to the auto manufacturing industry. They all know exactly what it takes to develop a new vehicle concept as a new start up manufacturer and exactly where they currently are in the get to production cycle. It's not a bunch of kids in the garage trying to put together a three wheeler go cart using their Dad's off the shelf mower parts."
Actually, this is what is definitely, IMHO, accounting for many of the delays. And that is a good thing.
If many of us long-time Elio followers and supporters think back to either the green, silver or even as recent as the orange, more 'fully developed' prototype, the plan was to use existing technology and most importantly, off the shelf parts. Off the shelf parts thought to be a cost saving measure.
The Orange car was really the first viable proof of concept for our partners, and looking at the timeline of Elio progression, probably responsible for getting many of them on board. As more partners came along for the ride, they came up with better-engineered solutions rather than trying to use existing off the shelf parts. As an aside, It would be very interesting to know how many existing parts are borrowed as-is from other vehicles? Besides the obvious screws, senders, sensors, actuators and etc. I bet it is not many; no re-worked civic dash and shifter, no refurbished Suzuki engine, no more compromised suspension geometry trying to get that A-arm or spindle to work within these parameters. Now we have a fully engineered, well thought out vehicle system coming together, and the price has barely budged.
Like it or not, the P1 and P2 were definitely in the glorified go-cart category (and kind of what I found appealing). P3 was a little more refined, but not much and same can be said for the P4 except that P4 had many of its own bespoke component systems rather than trying to make a square peg fit in round hole to save costs. The E series vehicles are, however, real vehicle systems, with mostly bespoke components designed (or being designed) to work together as a vehicle. This is not just a bunch of parts put together in a unique way to achieve a set $$$/MPG goal any longer.
That is real progress, folks. Ironically, it is not really what even Paul thought was achievable at the beginning.
All praise the 3d printer and modern manufacturing processes for allowing new parts to be prototyped and manufactured almost as cheap as existing parts! I can wait longer for better parts and a well-engineered platform. The partners are doing their work! Kudos to Paul for allowing them to do it.
Actually, this is what is definitely, IMHO, accounting for many of the delays. And that is a good thing.
If many of us long-time Elio followers and supporters think back to either the green, silver or even as recent as the orange, more 'fully developed' prototype, the plan was to use existing technology and most importantly, off the shelf parts. Off the shelf parts thought to be a cost saving measure.
The Orange car was really the first viable proof of concept for our partners, and looking at the timeline of Elio progression, probably responsible for getting many of them on board. As more partners came along for the ride, they came up with better-engineered solutions rather than trying to use existing off the shelf parts. As an aside, It would be very interesting to know how many existing parts are borrowed as-is from other vehicles? Besides the obvious screws, senders, sensors, actuators and etc. I bet it is not many; no re-worked civic dash and shifter, no refurbished Suzuki engine, no more compromised suspension geometry trying to get that A-arm or spindle to work within these parameters. Now we have a fully engineered, well thought out vehicle system coming together, and the price has barely budged.
Like it or not, the P1 and P2 were definitely in the glorified go-cart category (and kind of what I found appealing). P3 was a little more refined, but not much and same can be said for the P4 except that P4 had many of its own bespoke component systems rather than trying to make a square peg fit in round hole to save costs. The E series vehicles are, however, real vehicle systems, with mostly bespoke components designed (or being designed) to work together as a vehicle. This is not just a bunch of parts put together in a unique way to achieve a set $$$/MPG goal any longer.
That is real progress, folks. Ironically, it is not really what even Paul thought was achievable at the beginning.
All praise the 3d printer and modern manufacturing processes for allowing new parts to be prototyped and manufactured almost as cheap as existing parts! I can wait longer for better parts and a well-engineered platform. The partners are doing their work! Kudos to Paul for allowing them to do it.
This may already be on here somewhere, but I couldn't find it.
And if I can't find it would be even tougher for anyone else to.
10+ minute video of a tour of the factory
And if I can't find it would be even tougher for anyone else to.
10+ minute video of a tour of the factory
It was posted before, but I can't find it either. Sure would be awesome if you or another moderator put together an "archive" section where you could just put in the major videos, announcements, etc. I place where no one else could post and go off on the tangents people here are notorious for.
Sorry, I have a life. A project like that would take a LOT of time.
4,637 threads, and 163,889 posts in them is a lot of data.
slinches
Elio Addict
If we break up the work, we could probably get something done without overburdening the mods.
Could someone write a script to scrape the site for images and videos and dump them into a shared google drive? Then we could each go in and spend what time we can to sort them into various folders (e.g. P1, P2 ... E1a, E1b, ... Shreveport, SEC, etc.)
Could someone write a script to scrape the site for images and videos and dump them into a shared google drive? Then we could each go in and spend what time we can to sort them into various folders (e.g. P1, P2 ... E1a, E1b, ... Shreveport, SEC, etc.)
I like that. Leave the originals where they were, and either copy and paste them, or provide the link to them.
slinches
Elio Addict
Yup, links are fine for anything stored on the elioowners.com site itself. Although, I would want to copy files that are hosted elsewhere as much as possible (a notable exception being large files on sites that are likely to keep them available for the foreseeable future, e.g. youtube videos). One of the problems with the internet is that unless you keep the files yourself, there's no guarantee they won't disappear at any time.
Ty
Elio Addict
This story has a point.
I decided to build a little table to go between my chair and the couch. It is a wedge shaped thing and I couldn't find something already made that met what I wanted to have so I decided the only way to get one was to build it myself. I put together a list of supplies I'd need and went to get the wood. The top piece ended up being a little too wide for the decent looking pieces but I was content to get a couple and make it work. I then changed my mind and went with a larger board that was edge glued to make a larger single piece. I had the right tools and I got some help (15 yr. old daughter). I made the cuts for the top and then took it over to the router to make the edges nice. The router bit came loose about halfway through the second side effectively ruining the piece. It got thrown across the garage in a hissy fit. So, I had to tell my wife the project would take a little longer and would now cost more to make. I went back to get another piece of the edge-glued board when I changed my mind again and got a nice piece of Spruce plywood and figured I'd case it in ash to get a unique looking top. I also bought legs as I don't have a lathe at the house.
Back to cutting... then, I got out the compound miter-slide and did some cutting on the ash. Then, I attached the leg hardware, cased the spruce and got to sanding. Then, it was time for staining. I went for a light coat.. then, I had to sand between coats. Then, I put on a second coat. Today, that second coat is dry and I'll do some more (very) light sanding and then I'll put on a clear coat of poly. Then, it'll be done. But, that's still in the future. Plus, I've got one of the legs that isn't quite right. It seems the bolt in the end came out and I've had to "fix" it twice already. I can't figure out if it'll be okay or if I need to do something to protect it somehow. The other legs seem fine.
I blew through my estimated timeframe and money too fast all while promising my wife that I'd get it done but not whether or not she'd actually like the table... Imagine if I were starting a car company with those type of issues. Now, ramp up those issues to the size you'd expect with a car company that plans on making 250,000 cars a year. Wow.
Perspective is something we all lose at times. It's tough to get out of the "I'm impatient" mode and start to think that Paul Elio doesn't know what he is doing or that maybe, somehow, he's hired people who don't know what they are doing. Not a single person on this forum has successfully started a car company from scratch. Few ever have. Fewer than that have ever done it without first being independently wealthy. It doesn't mean that Paul Elio doesn't know what he's doing just because he isn't doing what WE think he should be doing. WE need to be reminded at times that what he is doing is unprecedented in our lifetimes. We don't DESERVE to know everything about Elio or Paul Elio's motivations. We'd like to know, for sure. Our feelings about HOW things should be done conflict with the realities that THIS IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT and THAT causes frustration and makes us "lose our patience". When you lose patience, it should be because something is taking longer than we feel it should. Where did we get the feeling that it takes XXX amount of time to build a car company? Because Tesla did it? Elon Musk started in 2003, didn't produce his first car till 2008... By January 2009, Tesla had raised $187 million and delivered 147 cars. In 2013, they posted their first profit. It isn't easy, apparently.
My point, as it were, is that impatience is something that each person who feels it has actively decided to feel. If you feel impatient about Elio's timeline, that's because you have decided that they are taking too long. It doesn't mean that Elio IS taking too long or doing something else wrong. It just means that you've assigned an arbitrary value to what you FEEL should be attainable. Either you trust that success is important to Paul Elio and that he's doing whatever he and his hired experts believe is necessary to succeed or you don't. If you don't trust that, don't invest. Don't invest either through a down payment or a stock purchase. If you have already invested, you have already, through your release of funds, put faith that Paul Elio is going to do what it takes to succeed. Paul still wants to succeed. That has not changed. Only our perception of patience...
I'll take this single sentence to apologize for such a long rant - Sorry.
I decided to build a little table to go between my chair and the couch. It is a wedge shaped thing and I couldn't find something already made that met what I wanted to have so I decided the only way to get one was to build it myself. I put together a list of supplies I'd need and went to get the wood. The top piece ended up being a little too wide for the decent looking pieces but I was content to get a couple and make it work. I then changed my mind and went with a larger board that was edge glued to make a larger single piece. I had the right tools and I got some help (15 yr. old daughter). I made the cuts for the top and then took it over to the router to make the edges nice. The router bit came loose about halfway through the second side effectively ruining the piece. It got thrown across the garage in a hissy fit. So, I had to tell my wife the project would take a little longer and would now cost more to make. I went back to get another piece of the edge-glued board when I changed my mind again and got a nice piece of Spruce plywood and figured I'd case it in ash to get a unique looking top. I also bought legs as I don't have a lathe at the house.
Back to cutting... then, I got out the compound miter-slide and did some cutting on the ash. Then, I attached the leg hardware, cased the spruce and got to sanding. Then, it was time for staining. I went for a light coat.. then, I had to sand between coats. Then, I put on a second coat. Today, that second coat is dry and I'll do some more (very) light sanding and then I'll put on a clear coat of poly. Then, it'll be done. But, that's still in the future. Plus, I've got one of the legs that isn't quite right. It seems the bolt in the end came out and I've had to "fix" it twice already. I can't figure out if it'll be okay or if I need to do something to protect it somehow. The other legs seem fine.
I blew through my estimated timeframe and money too fast all while promising my wife that I'd get it done but not whether or not she'd actually like the table... Imagine if I were starting a car company with those type of issues. Now, ramp up those issues to the size you'd expect with a car company that plans on making 250,000 cars a year. Wow.
Perspective is something we all lose at times. It's tough to get out of the "I'm impatient" mode and start to think that Paul Elio doesn't know what he is doing or that maybe, somehow, he's hired people who don't know what they are doing. Not a single person on this forum has successfully started a car company from scratch. Few ever have. Fewer than that have ever done it without first being independently wealthy. It doesn't mean that Paul Elio doesn't know what he's doing just because he isn't doing what WE think he should be doing. WE need to be reminded at times that what he is doing is unprecedented in our lifetimes. We don't DESERVE to know everything about Elio or Paul Elio's motivations. We'd like to know, for sure. Our feelings about HOW things should be done conflict with the realities that THIS IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT and THAT causes frustration and makes us "lose our patience". When you lose patience, it should be because something is taking longer than we feel it should. Where did we get the feeling that it takes XXX amount of time to build a car company? Because Tesla did it? Elon Musk started in 2003, didn't produce his first car till 2008... By January 2009, Tesla had raised $187 million and delivered 147 cars. In 2013, they posted their first profit. It isn't easy, apparently.
My point, as it were, is that impatience is something that each person who feels it has actively decided to feel. If you feel impatient about Elio's timeline, that's because you have decided that they are taking too long. It doesn't mean that Elio IS taking too long or doing something else wrong. It just means that you've assigned an arbitrary value to what you FEEL should be attainable. Either you trust that success is important to Paul Elio and that he's doing whatever he and his hired experts believe is necessary to succeed or you don't. If you don't trust that, don't invest. Don't invest either through a down payment or a stock purchase. If you have already invested, you have already, through your release of funds, put faith that Paul Elio is going to do what it takes to succeed. Paul still wants to succeed. That has not changed. Only our perception of patience...
I'll take this single sentence to apologize for such a long rant - Sorry.
Very well stated Ty; good job.
As for knowing everything that they're doing, we'll just have to wait for the book and movie to come out.
As for knowing everything that they're doing, we'll just have to wait for the book and movie to come out.
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