The Real P5 ?

[skygazer6033]

I don't see the oil pan either but I have no reason to think it's not there. The fact that we can plainly see the serpentine belt is enough to convince me that the a/c compressor is installed, capped off and awaiting connection just like a number of other components that we can see.

 

[WilliamH]

Ah, but the AC compresser is longer than the alternator, as well as almost as large in diameter. We'd see a "hint" of it under the alternator is it was already mounted..
The beautiful intake manifold would give us this "peek" between the passsges if it was there.

Just to make things real clear

 

[skygazer6033]

I really don't think the a/c efficiency is going to be an issue. With the interior volume so small the a/c won't have to run much to keep it cool. Just like most other components used in the Elio the fact that it comes from a much larger vehicle means it is "superduty" in this installation.

 

[AriLea]

I think the more interesting issue to figure out, does this look like a mass-production build? Is this being built in the same order and methods as a production Elio? I mean ignoring the case of automation doing assembly steps versus by hand.

Like that mesh we saw. I don't think it matters about that, because attaching the mesh to a panel prior is close enough to attaching to the mesh after it's on the frame. This would be activity in support of formulating the jigs needed to do this en-mass later.

I can imagine the E1-25 will be assembled much more like actual production than the P5 is. And all of this is an opportunity to nail down / prove it all out. So I'm also watching for evidence of tooling and methods development.

So this may seem trite, but that paint bucket. Is someone is using it to assemble or inspect from that position? Are those buckets going to be the de-fact-o QA seating? Kind of a joke, but really I'm also watching for these peripheral details.

And the frame, it's bare metal. In production and for the E1-25, would it be painted/coated normally before attaching body panels? Or is this done as part of body/panel finishing?

Looking through the rear end, I see some of the interior panels sitting there. When should those go on? After the Defroster/Heater box is installed?

 

[satx]

With the interior volume so small the a/c won't have to run much to keep it cool.

the interior volume is small, but how much thermal/noise isolation will be left out to keep weight (cost) down?

 

[Ekh]

I think the more interesting issue to figure out, does this look like a mass-production build? Is this being built in the same order and methods as a production Elio? I mean ignoring the case of automation doing assembly steps versus by hand.

Like that mesh we saw. I don't think it matters about that, because attaching the mesh to a panel prior is close enough to attaching to the mesh after it's on the frame. This would be activity in support of formulating the jigs needed to do this en-mass later.

I can imagine the E1-25 will be assembled much more like actual production than the P5 is. And all of this is an opportunity to nail down / prove it all out. So I'm also watching for evidence of tooling and methods development.

So this may seem trite, but that paint bucket. Is someone is using it to assemble or inspect from that position? Are those buckets going to be the de-fact-o QA seating? Kind of a joke, but really I'm also watching for these peripheral details.

And the frame, it's bare metal. In production and for the E1-25, would it be painted/coated normally before attaching body panels? Or is this done as part of body/panel finishing?

Looking through the rear end, I see some of the interior panels sitting there. When should those go on? After the Defroster/Heater box is installed?

Have you read Rust? If you have, all those uncoated, open ended tubes would scare you to death. I know they're using a corrosion resistant steel (they said so in some communication or other), but you still need to coat the stuff appropriately or it will rust. Frankly, I think they should flat-out galvanize the entire frame -- but then, I guess they don't need their cars to last 50 years or so. But without some sort of corrosion protection, all that metal will be victimized by the salt air of either coast or the salt from winter roads in the heartland.

They did say that the P5 would serve to some extent as a model for the production assembly methods, but it sure doesn't look like it so far -- this is start from zero fabricate and build, especially as far as the frame and attachment points are concerned. the E vehicles are supposed to be much more of a pre-factory process.

There was a second frame visible in the first "milestone" photos EM sent out, barely visible on the far left edge of the photo. I queried Jerome about that and got a smiley face with the words "could be." So there seems to be another trick or two up EM's sleeves -- the other frame may be for E1.

 

[slinches]

That's one of the advantages of living in the desert southwest. Essentially no rust. I can leave plain carbon steel out in the weather for years and only get a bit of surface discoloration. So, that doesn't worry me much.

As far as the build process is going, I wouldn't expect the P5 to be assembly line ready. They're only now getting all of the production hardware together to determine how it fits and what tweaks they need to mounting brackets and service routings to make it go together smoothly. E1-25 should use the lessons from P5 to finalize the details of the production designs so they can start churning them out en masse. P5 still has the "P" for prototype designation, after all.

 

[Ty]

I think the more interesting issue to figure out, does this look like a mass-production build? Is this being built in the same order and methods as a production Elio? I mean ignoring the case of automation doing assembly steps versus by hand.

Like that mesh we saw. I don't think it matters about that, because attaching the mesh to a panel prior is close enough to attaching to the mesh after it's on the frame. This would be activity in support of formulating the jigs needed to do this en-mass later.

I can imagine the E1-25 will be assembled much more like actual production than the P5 is. And all of this is an opportunity to nail down / prove it all out. So I'm also watching for evidence of tooling and methods development.

So this may seem trite, but that paint bucket. Is someone is using it to assemble or inspect from that position? Are those buckets going to be the de-fact-o QA seating? Kind of a joke, but really I'm also watching for these peripheral details.

And the frame, it's bare metal. In production and for the E1-25, would it be painted/coated normally before attaching body panels? Or is this done as part of body/panel finishing?

Looking through the rear end, I see some of the interior panels sitting there. When should those go on? After the Defroster/Heater box is installed?

About the frame - I thought it would be easier to paint it without the engine in and the body panels on. I think I have this figured out.

Before painting the frame and then scratching it up and burning off the paint because something was in the wrong spot, it makes sense to do a dry test fit. I believe the pictures are of this test fit phase which would also explain all the vice grips holding the panels on. So, they'll make sure the motor mounts work, the peddle box fits in there and then pull the motor out. Seriously, when the line installs the motor, all the belts and pulleys and wiring is attached already as it's easier to do outside of the vehicle. So, they'll pull the motor and panels off once fit is final, dip the frame (or more likely just spray it), and then assemble the panels and put the motor in. Oh, they'll paint the panels before putting them on too. That's a little different from a steel body, I believe. I just can't see them painting the frame, and then putting the body on, taping everything up and painting the panels. Anyway, pulling the motor and those body panels won't take but a couple of minutes as will re-installing them.

Yeah, I think I'm right there.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Yeah, I was just about to say that...
Who says all these components aren't going to go on and off of the frame several times before they start the permanent installation?

Tech #1: "Yeah I know, but I just don't like it like that."
Tech #2: "O.K., you're right, let's pull it out again and fix it."

 

[DAVID BROWER]

The advantage of an electric AC compressor is that it can run at its optimal rpm rather than be fixed to engine speed. This means that a smaller unit can be used with equal effectiveness and higher efficiency. But it costs more due to the need for an electric motor and higher amperage electrical system needed to power it.

ANOTHER ADVANTAGE IS THAT IS DOES NOT NEED TO BE MOUNTED ON THE MOTOR .
IT COULD BE MOUNTED ANYWHERE THEY CAN FIND THE SPACE FOR IT .