I’ll be surprised if the BEX crosses the production finish line. if it doesI (I hope it does) realistically, the BEX will either be a hand built option in the $30K range or assembly line ready and in the $20K range to not lose money. What happens to these guys with target pricing (they pull numbers out their butts) because they have no idea what the finalized specs will be or who the parts suppliers are and who can actually deliver on those pats for the finalized production model. That includes Arcimoto, ElectraMeccanica, every other vaporware concept, and the BEX which is a long ways from final specs. Once finalized they have to partner with parts suppliers (both off the shelf and custom fabricate) to determine actual finalized cost……….always higher when purchasing a few parts for low volume production numbers than when purchasing in quantity discounts. Arcimoto, as a new startup, had a target price in mind, and after the NHTSA certification process, stated that they couldn’t afford to lose money on the initial 100 production model FUVs and offered the $19,900 fully optioned roll out model to reservation holders and moved the $11,900 target pricing out to 2024 when manufacturing efficiency and production scale allows them to lower costs. As a reservation holder for years, I was disappointed in the higher than expected price, but understood many things are outside the direct control of the startup and why it happens. I’m amazed they crossed the production finish line. The last vehicle startup to do that may have been Tesla. The weekend toy builders have a low, custom hand build volume for a very limited market demographic and the price has to be ridiculously high for profit margins. The FUV, SOLO, and hopefully the BEX are targeting a wide variety of market demographics that are well received mass production affordable three wheelers for the average family.
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The Nobe
- Thread starter Rickb
- Start date
Note: I was ready to shell out the anticipated $25K for the NOBE after seeing how it handled in deep snow and ice, but after their UK partnership and the recently announced $39K reservation MSRP low production model NOBE …..it’s out my price point for what it is.
RSchneider
Elio Addict
That would be Vanderhall, then Lucid and Rivian (the last two went through a much more rigorous certification process). At least Vanderhall did it really fast, set up a nationwide dealer and service network. Now they are selling them in Australia. We should be celebrating that as it's a three wheeler and most of us can go and drive one for free. I just wish FUV would do that for me as the weather is great here right now and I'd like to test drive a Fun Utility Vehicle. As with my last conversation with them, it was no. I now have to wait around for a "soon" timeframe. I don't know if that will be 5 years or 5 days. They will not tell me. For me to test drive one, I get charged about $1K to do so. So, it would be nice if FUV could cross the finish line and let me do a free test drive to see if they are all they are cracked up to be.
RickB, since you know lots about the FUV and friends with them, can you get out of them, when they will start a dealer network where people like me in PA can test drive one to see if I want to buy. We have lots of Vanderhalls and Slingshots on the roads right now and the FUV is missing out on the sweet spot for selling them.
Closest Vanderhall Dealer to my home is 250 miles. I appreciate it, respect the fact they crossed the production finish line, but If I could get in and out of it with ease and personal driver comfort I‘m still not their market demographic, because it‘s not the everyday commuter I want and need, but more of a week end fun vehicle. Also, I’m not in the market for a luxury Lucid or Rivian and have a Tesla preference. We need more stylish and affordable EVs to choose from.
Regarding the FUV……….I’m friends of Arcimoto having followed them along with Elio since 2008. I traveled to Eugene, OR for a ‘free‘ FUV test drive, factory tour, and met some very dedicated Arcimoto team members in 2018 to verify easy ingress/egress, driver comfort, performance, and handling that exceeded my expectation. Arcimoto’s current regional sales/service is dedicated to 6 States - all year around mild climates - close to the factory (with the exception of Florida) so they can deal directly with customer service needs. Direct to consumer sales, no Dealerships. They do have FUV Experience/rental locations in key tourist destinations throughout their current sales areas that provides for excellent Marketing exposure and the opportunity to test drive the FUV while on vacation, by the hour, half or full day. They are currently tooling their new factory, partnering with Munro & Associates on improvements that will maximize efficiency needed for production scale. The plan is to increase production to 1000 units in 2023 and 50K units, as I recall in 2024. My guess is they will expand slowly to our States when the time is right. I’m eager to own and drive the next iteration….fully enclosed ……..that will be far more suitable for the cold weather climates. Employee numbers have grown to over 200 to date. They are dedicated to their mission…………although expansion is not quite as fast as I thought it would be….due to a financially efficient strategic planning process. They do attend various EV and Motorcycle events around the country and offer test drive opportunities. The next FUV Experience, sales and service States are Hawaii and New York. Closer to your neck of the woods? Note on the NHTSA motorcycle certification: Arcimoto’s CEO refererred to the certification process as a nightmare from hell. May seem somewhat boring, but this latest update better explains how damn complicated getting a new vehicle to scaled production numbers numbers really is along with the team of people and partners required to make it happen:
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RSchneider
Elio Addict
How far did you have to drive to jump in a FUV? Plus, the FUV has not crossed the finish line according to your specs as you still won't buy one until they make full doors. I'm confused as to why this has taken so long for them to do. They have half doors. Why not finish the other half? What I see, is a company that seems to be trying to throw out a multitude of models and versions yet can't just make a simple addition to their current product. You know Mark and you should tell him that as it's keeping you from giving him money. It sure will help when they start selling them in New York as I know, I can go straight north of here by three hours and it gets pretty darn cold at night. I must have full doors to keep that chill off of me and then if it rains, that's even worse. I'm like you and old thus will not put up with being wet and cold when there is an option.
As for that certification process, I never remember Vanderhall talking about how it was a nightmare. They just mentioned how they had to place the reflectors in the wheels and not much else. It was just part of the project. So, I think that it's not as hard as Arcimoto is letting it on to be. It doesn't matter if it's a three wheeler for the poor or rich. They all have to pass the same specs and regulations. Even the Chinese can crank out scooters (which have similar specs) and they seem to have no problem with it. I suspect that Arcimoto was using that as a stall tactic because they can claim how hard it is and how long it took, thus to move the production date further down the road. In the end, it comes down to funding. Throw enough money at a project, it gets done. Vanderhall obviously threw more money at their project over Arcimoto. Numbers don't lie. One company took 6 years to get to production, the other took 12. Both make fair weather three wheelers that follow the autocycle rules and regs.
As for that certification process, I never remember Vanderhall talking about how it was a nightmare. They just mentioned how they had to place the reflectors in the wheels and not much else. It was just part of the project. So, I think that it's not as hard as Arcimoto is letting it on to be. It doesn't matter if it's a three wheeler for the poor or rich. They all have to pass the same specs and regulations. Even the Chinese can crank out scooters (which have similar specs) and they seem to have no problem with it. I suspect that Arcimoto was using that as a stall tactic because they can claim how hard it is and how long it took, thus to move the production date further down the road. In the end, it comes down to funding. Throw enough money at a project, it gets done. Vanderhall obviously threw more money at their project over Arcimoto. Numbers don't lie. One company took 6 years to get to production, the other took 12. Both make fair weather three wheelers that follow the autocycle rules and regs.
My wife and I traveled 450 miles to Eugene, OR for the factory tour and test drive. A fun vacation getaway. Arcimoto successfully crossed the production finish in 2019 with their open air FUV platform. The 100 early adopter Evergreen owners like the open air ‘motorcycle‘ riding experience while waiting on doors. Optional hard half doors simply weren’t production ready until Q1 2022 with full enclosure available on the future 1.x platform. The optional doors for me, are a personal choice requirement. As an investor and future customer (when the enclosed product is available in South Dakota), I‘m happy with their success to date and understand the dynamics of what they are doing to achieve production scale numbers and tooling up their new manufacturing plant. Regarding Vanderhall’s motorcycle certification process……I didn’t follow his progress/process because it the three wheeler checked none of my personal want/needs boxes. I doubt Vanderhall’s road to production was as public as following Arcimoto’s Facebook experience……every step of the way. Arcimoto’s production scale roll out will appeal to a much greater range of the everyday commuter EV market demographics in the long haul……young and old Alike……not your Vanderhall week end rider demographic
JohnJ
Elio Addict
Outside right now outside it's 95 degrees with 82% humidity. Tomorrow there's supposed to be thunderstorms. I can really see myself or my wife driving around it one of these. Yeah, right! The lady in the video proved what I have felt all along about these open air machines. They are fun toys, not serious transportation.
No fun and tough 75 year old women motorcycle riders in your neck of the woods?
I also need enclosure for year around comfort. Half doors now full enclosure coming soon option on the FUV. Like the idea of popping off doors for open air rides on the nicest of days……….convertible.
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BigWarpGuy
Elio Addict
I found how expensive it would be. I still hope that it comes to America so I can see them on the road. I also hope their pickup truck comes here too. I think it is retro cool.
Speaking of the Vanderhall (Venice $29,950) and a side by side comparison photo to the Arcimoto FUV (Base Model $17,900), which one is the most affordable and provides the easiest ingress/egress, driver comfort, visibility, and safety features, as the most FUNctional daily use commuter vehicle? With that said I may prefer the Nobe concept over either, providing it makes it to production and had a comparably affordable MSRP.
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