The Next Generation Elio Engine ? (2-stroke Turbo Diesel)

[tonyspumoni]

You must have hammered that 335d. I bet $100 I can average 34mpg on 2tanks back to back in a 335d.

You do have to drive a diesel differently for best economy. I use a Scangauge mpg computer which is a great teaching tool.

Snick

I think it is fair to say that indeed I hammered those 335d's (with feeling), but even when I didn't my efficiency in 0-60-0 suburban driving in San Diego never got above 30 mpg actual, in either a 2010 or a 2011. I kept a computed consumption log and I'll go back and make sure my memory isn't failing me. The 2010 I bought new and followed break-in to the letter. The 2011 I bought with 17k on it but it seemed gently used as it went like billy hell when pressed.

A diesel Elio would have to offer better than 100 mpg for me to even think about risking it. I'm kinda waiting to see how the urea injection equipped VW's work, as BMW and Audi's models all seem to have had their fair share of trouble keeping their emissions systems from melting. Until someone builds a bulletproof urea injection system I'm staying away from passenger car diesel models.

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

Until someone builds a bulletproof urea injection system I'm staying away from passenger car diesel models.

I agree. And it extends to light trucks as well. With the big 3 (and I believe Toyota and Nissan as well) all offering well over 300 hp from their gas engines, there's no need for the EPA mandated bs that is a T4 diesel.

 

[tonyspumoni]

Wheaters,

Wholeheartedly agree. I loved going 'analog' with the WRX after having to live digital with those darn 335d's, which is the 330d in the U.K. (minus the DEF system) if I am not mistaken. The simpler the better for me going foward. If the Elio ever happens I will commute in it and keep the WRX for the kind of fun I won't be able to have in the Elio or for a differeny kinda fun.

What surprised me was how little I miss all the luxury bits that came with the 335d. The second one was an Msport and it had everything except park assist and lane control. I can't say I have a single day when I even missed the sunroof. Simple, simple, simple. And if I can actually work on it myself, so much the better.

 

[tonyspumoni]

Well you sods should consider yourselves fortunate - your BMW diesel offerings are vast and none require urea injection or do they? Didn't know that the 330d was a single turbo but yeah, the 335d here is/was 265 bhp and 425 ft*lb of torque. Quite the rides when they weren't at the dealerhsip. I don't want to give urea injection a bad name. I'm sure that like any other automotive system it would be fine if properly designed and executed. I guess the old-timers can comment, but there are probably a fair few systems that have been fully reduced to practice now that, when first sold, were utter horrors.

I guess the real question in the context of a potential diesel Elio whether there is any way to reach level 4 emissions without urea? I think I read somewhere that a urea system wouldn't be necessary for units designed to produce less power and I know that it is only in the latest TDI's that Volkswagen has gone that route. Up until a couple of years ago, they were not so equipped.

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

Full Tier 4 is just now coming to small diesels. It started with highway trucks around 2011 somewhere, and they're just starting to debug those systems. JD Power satisfaction numbers on 2012 models set a new low in heavy trucks, mainly due to emissions system failures.

Good luck, US diesel lovers.

 

[Snick]

Well you sods should consider yourselves fortunate - your BMW diesel offerings are vast and none require urea injection or do they? Didn't know that the 330d was a single turbo but yeah, the 335d here is/was 265 bhp and 425 ft*lb of torque. Quite the rides when they weren't at the dealerhsip. I don't want to give urea injection a bad name. I'm sure that like any other automotive system it would be fine if properly designed and executed. I guess the old-timers can comment, but there are probably a fair few systems that have been fully reduced to practice now that, when first sold, were utter horrors.

I guess the real question in the context of a potential diesel Elio whether there is any way to reach level 4 emissions without urea? I think I read somewhere that a urea system wouldn't be necessary for units designed to produce less power and I know that it is only in the latest TDI's that Volkswagen has gone that route. Up until a couple of years ago, they were not so equipped.

The choice of NOx reduction strategy is tied to average engine loading. Heavier cars are more heavily loaded, so late fuel injection is less effective, and that necessitates urea after-injection.

Lighter cars load engines less, so late fuel injection is "good enough." Plus, larger cars simple have more room to package urea tanks.

So:
1.) engine loading factors and secondary:
2.) available packaging room.

 

[Smitty901]

The choice of NOx reduction strategy is tied to average engine loading. Heavier cars are more heavily loaded, so late fuel injection is less effective, and that necessitates urea after-injection.

Lighter cars load engines less, so late fuel injection is "good enough." Plus, larger cars simple have more room to package urea tanks.

So:
1.) engine loading factors and secondary:
2.) available packaging room.

Or the regeneration system. Both systems have issues.

 

[JEBar]

I've owned/used diesel powered vehicles every day for the last 13 years .... in my book they can't be beat when it comes to needing a vehicle to haul/tow heavy loads over extended distances .... back when I was driving 140+ miles each day to work, I might have considered a diesel powered vehicle .... for the type of driving I will be doing with an Elio, I don't see sufficient advantages to put up with the negatives .... but that's just me

 

[W. WIllie]

I've owned/used diesel powered vehicles every day for the last 13 years .... in my book they can't be beat when it comes to needing a vehicle to haul/tow heavy loads over extended distances .... back when I was driving 140+ miles each day to work, I might have considered a diesel powered vehicle .... for the type of driving I will be doing with an Elio, I don't see sufficient advantages to put up with the negatives .... but that's just me

Until the price of diesel fuel goes below the price of regular fuel, like it was years (eons) ago, I don't see any small diesels being imported to the USA.
MY OPINION.
Willie

 

[Smitty901]

We need a running First version in the ELIO before we can worry about the next generation