The Elio Engine

[Sethodine]

Ponders certification requirements.

(*shivers*)

I've seen all new engines take over 10 years to get certified. What a nightmare.

The long stroke engine might not be optimized for a propeller without a reduction gear box.

a new head for dual spark plugs, dual ignition sources, single throttle operation, FADEC.... might work.

Although its older brother has flown:

It's been a while since I studied the LSA rules, but I'm pretty sure an Experimental could have an Elio engine without special certification. Of course all the redundancy stuff needs to be in place though.

 

[Mel]

It's been a while since I studied the LSA rules, but I'm pretty sure an Experimental could have an Elio engine without special certification. Of course all the redundancy stuff needs to be in place though.

Yes, there are certification requirements for Experimental Light-Sport engines. They must meet the same ASTM standards as a Special Light-Sport.
However if you build as experimental amateur-built and the aircraft meets LSA parameters, you can install any engine you wish and it can be flown by a sport pilot. The rules can be confusing.

 

[AriLea]

(Elio Motors Engine = EME)
We haven't paid much attention to one issue, the combination of selling the 100 pilot run Elio's along with the world sales of the engine for other applications. I would think this gives a viable ongoing business profit/business model. If that covers the loan payments and other on-going costs, would it help satisfy one of the ATVM requirements, wouldn't it? And encourage other investment?

I don't think Paul's last video mentioned that income stream to the investor Q&A venue. But it's real.

I imagine it depends on how many engines are sold at what profit per each one. Do we think they can net $500 each engine? When could that start.
I can't imagine EM would restrict sales from most anything even makers of tiny 4 wheel cars, trucks or tuk-tuk's for that mater.

It would kind of make me envious if Mail-Delivery trucks with Elio engines were on our streets before the actual Elio autocycles are. Same goes for EME powered motorcycles.

The next time I get to a EM show event, I'll query about that, world sales of EME.

 

[Ty]

I would bet that the per-engine net for Elio Motors will be very small.. much smaller than you probably realize. If it were $20 per motor, and a company was planning on selling a million, it would probably be cheaper to do what Paul did... have someone design a specific motor for you. No. I'm betting the Elio net per motor is down near the single dollar range. But, I only stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...

 

[AriLea]

I would bet that the per-engine net for Elio Motors will be very small.. much smaller than you probably realize. If it were $20 per motor, and a company was planning on selling a million, it would probably be cheaper to do what Paul did... have someone design a specific motor for you. No. I'm betting the Elio net per motor is down near the single dollar range. But, I only stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...

Well, the risk of money and the cost of money, generally says do no business at less than xx% of profit. I'm going totally guess that's no less than 20%.
i.e don't waist the contract paper unless you get more than 20% on what it costs plus tooling.

On the other hand you may mean EM is just getting a fee for each engine made. OK I can buy that, if EM is not investing in the actual production line.

 

[Ekh]

Well, the risk of money and the cost of money, generally says do no business at less than xx% of profit. I'm going totally guess that's no less than 20%.
i.e don't waist the contract paper unless you get more than 20% on what it costs plus tooling.

On the other hand you may mean EM is just getting a fee for each engine made. OK I can buy that, if EM is not investing in the actual production line.

The people who bought yhe rights to market the engine are building a manufacturing plant in 'siuth central America." Elio will get a flat fee per engine sold under license. Maybe that will offset some of the cost of engine parts Elio has to buy.

What percentage of the manufacturing cost of the car (parts and labor) does the engine normally get? I suspect but do not know that it doesn't exceed 15%. If that is about right, the cost of the engine should not be more than $1000. In that case a licensing royalty might be worth $20 to $40 or a bit more.

But this is guesswork.

 

[Ty]

The people who bought yhe rights to market the engine are building a manufacturing plant in 'siuth central America." Elio will get a flat fee per engine sold under license. Maybe that will offset some of the cost of engine parts Elio has to buy.

What percentage of the manufacturing cost of the car (parts and labor) does the engine normally get? I suspect but do not know that it doesn't exceed 15%. If that is about right, the cost of the engine should not be more than $1000. In that case a licensing royalty might be worth $20 to $40 or a bit more.

But this is guesswork.

Not so much guesswork... straight from Elio's Blog,

"Under the agreement, Linamar will partner with Elio for the manufacturing of the Elio motors for Elio, as well as for engines for global use in the automotive, marine and industrial sectors outside of the US."

Linamar will manufacture the engines for Elio as well as "others". I'm sure Elio will get some kind of residuals from the licensing but it won't be a whole lot...

 

[Ekh]

Not so much guesswork... straight from Elio's Blog,

"Under the agreement, Linamar will partner with Elio for the manufacturing of the Elio motors for Elio, as well as for engines for global use in the automotive, marine and industrial sectors outside of the US."

Linamar will manufacture the engines for Elio as well as "others". I'm sure Elio will get some kind of residuals from the licensing but it won't be a whole lot...

I wasn't guessing abiut Linamar but am guessing about the value of the licence in per engine terms. I think you're right that it won't be too much but it needs to be enough to be worth doing.

 

[Ty]

I wasn't guessing abiut Linamar but am guessing about the value of the licence in per engine terms. I think you're right that it won't be too much but it needs to be enough to be worth doing.

I'm thinking that Elio realized they wouldn't be able to build their own engine and Linamar stepped in and said basically "We'll get you started and build some for you till you get the hang of it but we want to sell the motor to other markets." Perhaps they agreed to pay a bit per motor as well.

 

[Ekh]

I'm thinking that Elio realized they wouldn't be able to build their own engine and Linamar stepped in and said basically "We'll get you started and build some for you till you get the hang of it but we want to sell the motor to other markets." Perhaps they agreed to pay a bit per motor as well.

I thought that Elio was going to assemble engines -- but maybe Linamar is supplying the assembled mills as well as the parts.