• Welcome to Elio Owners! Join today, registration is easy!

    You can register using your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account, just click here.

The Elio Engine

AriLea

Elio Addict
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Messages
3,863
Reaction score
9,877
Location
anywhere
Spark plugs are so yesterday. Lasers are the next wave:

http://www.technologytoday.us/columnPDF/The_Laser_Car_Ignition_System.pdf

View attachment 9220

Mazda is reported to be working on such a system and has filed a patent:

Patent Hints Mazda is Working on a Laser-Ignition Engine » AutoGuide.com News
The thing I wonder about on the laser plug idea is three fold.
1) these are optical, how do they intend on keeping the optics clean? I would imagine some cars will be worse than others for having intrusion into the area of the optics than others. The fix to this is pumping some clean air into the optical area to keep tainted air out. This could get just a bit complex, the more complex the more points of failure. If the design just goes with tarnish resistant surfaces, there is no such thing as 100% tarnish free coatings. Periodic plug replacement becomes a requirement.
2) the laser, if a simple single beam design, it will need to aim at a target on the piston head. That spot better be something that can take it and not build up carbon burn. Going to a multiple cross beam might alleviate that but it still may be a concern. So it may need a ceramic or other coating. A ceramic coating has other benefits but still this is another complication.
3) the best spot for ignition is the middle of the air volume in the chamber. This suggests a split or multiple beam design or maybe some optics that first widens the beam to a ring then back to a cone with an apex focal point. This probably means they will have different focal lengths for each engine. (dial in adjustable?) Certainly makes the plugs more expensive to allow these variations. I don't think the optical cone solution represents a new point of failure in operation, just in manufacturing, which means more expense. If these are 'forever' plug then it's ok with me. -and I must add, the depth of current plugs is not too sensitive, but for the laser, a few ten thou make a bigger difference in the burn pattern. Each cylinder may need better consistency. So the sealing ring may need a higher level of engineering or at least a tight torque specification on installation.
 
Last edited:

Sethodine

Elio Addict
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
1,665
Reaction score
4,228
Location
Mount Vernon, WA
3) the best spot for ignition is the middle of the air volume in the chamber. This suggests a split or multiple beam design or maybe some optics that first widens the beam to a ring then back to a cone with an apex focal point....

latest?cb=20111104205236
 

Muzhik

Elio Addict
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
751
Reaction score
1,162
Location
Iowa
Now I just have to wonder, how long it will be before someone manages to buy just the Elio engine and mounts it on some homemade frame to make an Elio-powered motorcycle. I've seen pictures of cycles where guys mounted a V-8 engine between the wheels and right under the seat. Not quite what I'm looking for...
 

Sethodine

Elio Addict
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
1,665
Reaction score
4,228
Location
Mount Vernon, WA
Now I just have to wonder, how long it will be before someone manages to buy just the Elio engine and mounts it on some homemade frame to make an Elio-powered motorcycle. I've seen pictures of cycles where guys mounted a V-8 engine between the wheels and right under the seat. Not quite what I'm looking for...

I kinda want to see a Light Sport Aircraft version :D
 

Coss

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
11,106
Reaction score
16,402
Location
Battle Ground WA
Now I just have to wonder, how long it will be before someone manages to buy just the Elio engine and mounts it on some homemade frame to make an Elio-powered motorcycle. I've seen pictures of cycles where guys mounted a V-8 engine between the wheels and right under the seat. Not quite what I'm looking for...
How about a reverse Elio?
 

Ty

Elio Addict
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Messages
6,325
Reaction score
14,761
Location
Papillion, NE
The thing I wonder about on the laser plug idea is three fold.
1) these are optical, how do they intend on keeping the optics clean? I would imagine some cars will be worse than others for having intrusion into the area of the optics than others. The fix to this is pumping some clean air into the optical area to keep tainted air out. This could get just a bit complex, the more complex the more points of failure. If the design just goes with tarnish resistant surfaces, there is no such thing as 100% tarnish free coatings. Periodic plug replacement becomes a requirement.
2) the laser, if a simple single beam design, it will need to aim at a target on the piston head. That spot better be something that can take it and not build up carbon burn. Going to a multiple cross beam might alleviate that but it still may be a concern. So it may need a ceramic or other coating. A ceramic coating has other benefits but still this is another complication.
3) the best spot for ignition is the middle of the air volume in the chamber. This suggests a split or multiple beam design or maybe some optics that first widens the beam to a ring then back to a cone with an apex focal point. This probably means they will have different focal lengths for each engine. (dial in adjustable?) Certainly makes the plugs more expensive to allow these variations. I don't think the optical cone solution represents a new point of failure in operation, just in manufacturing, which means more expense. If these are 'forever' plug then it's ok with me. -and I must add, the depth of current plugs is not too sensitive, but for the laser, a few ten thou make a bigger difference in the burn pattern. Each cylinder may need better consistency. So the sealing ring may need a higher level of engineering or at least a tight torque specification on installation.
You are, of course, assuming the laser plugs would be screw-in consumer replaceable items. If they were mounted more permanently, they wouldn't even need to be accessible from the top. How about being mounted in a flat hole on one side with a focal length that ignites fuel in the dead center of the chamber?
 

Maurtis

Elio Addict
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
975
Reaction score
1,744
Location
San Marcos, TX
Now I just have to wonder, how long it will be before someone manages to buy just the Elio engine and mounts it on some homemade frame to make an Elio-powered motorcycle. I've seen pictures of cycles where guys mounted a V-8 engine between the wheels and right under the seat. Not quite what I'm looking for...

Not terribly likely to happen, given the low power. Similar displacement 4 cylinder motorcycle motors make 2X-3X the HP and torque stock. Unless they are looking to build a 150 MPG motorcycle.

Those guys running the big V8s (like the production Boss Hoss) make more like 8X the power of the Elio! They also weigh almost as much at just over 1,000 lbs dry. That is a really heavy bike.
 

AriLea

Elio Addict
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Messages
3,863
Reaction score
9,877
Location
anywhere
You are, of course, assuming the laser plugs would be screw-in consumer replaceable items. If they were mounted more permanently, they wouldn't even need to be accessible from the top. How about being mounted in a flat hole on one side with a focal length that ignites fuel in the dead center of the chamber?
I would assume on the side placement takes up valuable territory the piston needs. OK, IC maybe a half dozen pin holes along the edge? If there is a contrived focus point, there's no reason it can't be short and from the top. If they did this, I would assume they could do more optimization to shapes and form a perfect hemi-head or something, improving other engine attributes. But anyway, it's technology beyond our reach, having no laboratory of our own :oops:. Someday I hope to see what they did with it.
 

Muzhik

Elio Addict
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
751
Reaction score
1,162
Location
Iowa
Not terribly likely to happen, given the low power. Similar displacement 4 cylinder motorcycle motors make 2X-3X the HP and torque stock. Unless they are looking to build a 150 MPG motorcycle.
Actually, yes. In fact, what got me on this train of thought was wondering if the Elio engine could drive a scooter. (I really miss my little 49cc getaround. For 9 months out of the year it handled 99% of my transportation needs.) Then I looked at the engine photos and thought it's just too big, unless you want to make it like those V-8 cycles.

But a 150 MPG motorcycle? That would be sweet. and might just be worth the effort of getting a motorcycle license!
 

CrimsonEclipse

Elio Addict
Joined
May 24, 2014
Messages
959
Reaction score
2,182
I kinda want to see a Light Sport Aircraft version :D

Ponders certification requirements.

(*shivers*)

I've seen all new engines take over 10 years to get certified. What a nightmare.

The long stroke engine might not be optimized for a propeller without a reduction gear box.

a new head for dual spark plugs, dual ignition sources, single throttle operation, FADEC.... might work.

Although its older brother has flown:

 
Top Bottom