Ty
Elio Addict
To be fair, that Ecoboost is a LOT more complicated...
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The Elio Engine
- Thread starter ls10
- Start date
Johnny Acree
Elio Addict
- Joined
- May 12, 2014
- Messages
- 1,530
- Reaction score
- 2,573
ignore is a good word. I have used it a lot lately
ignore is a good word. I have used it a lot lately
it is a good feature .... the thing that concerns me is new folks just joining or considering joining the forum who don't have the background knowledge to be able to separate the bull from the bulls**t may be unduly influenced
Cache Man
Elio Addict
Third posting and it seems clear that you really do not understand manufacturing. Why all the speculations and negativism? What to you actually know?
Of course Elio will not build a foundry at the plant. EPA environment impact studies is only one hurdle that would have to be completed and this takes years. The cost of the equipment alone would be staggering.
Of course there is machining required to finish the engine blocks. Do you know what mills and types the Shreveport plant has? Do you expect that they also create a steel mill there for the frame material? Or what about the polymers and chemicals for other components? Have you been following what was said?
Most of the components are common items. This means that someone else is making them and/or has a facility that is capable of making similar items. There are facilities that can make the engine blocks castings/investment casting and there are facilities that can machine them. Where do you think the first engine block came from? It is less expensive to use others expertise than to develop it from the grass roots. There is also less capital investment required. They are not going to create a engine cam grinding shop either. There are good shops that can do this and are very experienced.
Most of the parts will come to the factory made. Then fitting, welding, forming, and assembly, etc. will be performed. Maybe at some point they will slowly bring some processes inside. Who knows... and all this negative speculations doesn't do anyone good. Let Paul Elio and his team work and we will see what the results will be.
WilliamH
Elio Addict
Where did you get the idea that they were only going to use equipment that was already in the plant?
My understanding was that they had always planned to sell off equipment that didn't meet their needs, keep what would, and buy any that was needed. They sure don't meed multi-ton presses to stamp plastic/composition body panels.
Are you an industrial equipment salesman who gets comped in percentage of quota attainment and needs to make a forecast?
Incidentally, how do you know what exits at the Shreveport plant?
And YES, I have as much right to ask those questions as you have to ask you questions.
Ty
Elio Addict
Since this topic IS about the engine, I'm going to deposit a couple of pennies worth of my thoughts right here.
The Elio will be simple to put together. I mean, it will be much less complicated than most vehicles. Even simple things will be made easier. The fuel lines can run down the side rather than have to be routed underneath and across... The frame is simple. The rear suspension is basic. The engine is (will be) quite lightweight. Most of the parts for the Elio will be made elsewhere and just assembled in Shreveport. There is very little "manufacturing" that will actually happen there. People will stand at their station and attach a door handle or door or put a headlight in position. none of those jobs requires much skill. They are easily taught. Now, I'm not saying monkeys can do it but I AM saying that if your job is to put in a headlight, it won't take you a week to get it right. You'll probably have to see it... once. maybe twice? Getting material to the line at the right time and in the right quantities (and quality) will be the logistic nightmare and THAT is what will make Elio show a profit or loss. If the line keeps getting shut down because the door handle supplier can't keep up, that will suck. But, I think all the suppliers are experienced in their areas and really don't feel that will be much of a problem. I've been there. The guys I worked with shut the plant down a couple of times (flat tire on a truck delivering our seats to the GM plant was enough once). My job was to make sure the supplier (Johnson Controls in that case) produced at the same rate as the plant while maintaining a slight buffer. You don't want your buffer too big because a problem can eat through a lot of inventory if it isn't caught fast.
Anyway, back to the engine. This is the one area that I would be the most worried about if I were the lead industrial engineer on the Elio project. Part of that stems from my lack of expertise in the process (I've built plenty engines but never cast one) and part of it stems from knowing that the process is going to take time.
An Elio should be coming off the line every 54 seconds (52 seconds was what we set stations at but never ran faster than 54 seconds). It's been a while since I was there but lets just say there'd be one every minute or 90 seconds... That is still 40-60 per hour being put together. That's 40-60 engines needed every hour.
My question... On the engine, what single process takes the longest amount of time? If, for instance, it takes an hour to pour, cool, and get the block out of casting (this is just a made up time to get to my concern), that would mean there would have to be 60 casting operations going simultaneously to produce one Elio per minute. Of course, the big boys can do that but what about Elio? I'm ASSUMING there is someone out there who can cast a bunch of parts like that and perhaps they can expand to include Elio blocks, heads, pans, etc. But, WHO is that going to be?
THAT is my concern. Now, if you've read this far, WOW. I mean, I can blabber there... sorry about the verbose vocabulary vomit.
The engine. I can't wait to see it. (who will cast that? who will machine that? who will assemble that?)
The Elio will be simple to put together. I mean, it will be much less complicated than most vehicles. Even simple things will be made easier. The fuel lines can run down the side rather than have to be routed underneath and across... The frame is simple. The rear suspension is basic. The engine is (will be) quite lightweight. Most of the parts for the Elio will be made elsewhere and just assembled in Shreveport. There is very little "manufacturing" that will actually happen there. People will stand at their station and attach a door handle or door or put a headlight in position. none of those jobs requires much skill. They are easily taught. Now, I'm not saying monkeys can do it but I AM saying that if your job is to put in a headlight, it won't take you a week to get it right. You'll probably have to see it... once. maybe twice? Getting material to the line at the right time and in the right quantities (and quality) will be the logistic nightmare and THAT is what will make Elio show a profit or loss. If the line keeps getting shut down because the door handle supplier can't keep up, that will suck. But, I think all the suppliers are experienced in their areas and really don't feel that will be much of a problem. I've been there. The guys I worked with shut the plant down a couple of times (flat tire on a truck delivering our seats to the GM plant was enough once). My job was to make sure the supplier (Johnson Controls in that case) produced at the same rate as the plant while maintaining a slight buffer. You don't want your buffer too big because a problem can eat through a lot of inventory if it isn't caught fast.
Anyway, back to the engine. This is the one area that I would be the most worried about if I were the lead industrial engineer on the Elio project. Part of that stems from my lack of expertise in the process (I've built plenty engines but never cast one) and part of it stems from knowing that the process is going to take time.
An Elio should be coming off the line every 54 seconds (52 seconds was what we set stations at but never ran faster than 54 seconds). It's been a while since I was there but lets just say there'd be one every minute or 90 seconds... That is still 40-60 per hour being put together. That's 40-60 engines needed every hour.
My question... On the engine, what single process takes the longest amount of time? If, for instance, it takes an hour to pour, cool, and get the block out of casting (this is just a made up time to get to my concern), that would mean there would have to be 60 casting operations going simultaneously to produce one Elio per minute. Of course, the big boys can do that but what about Elio? I'm ASSUMING there is someone out there who can cast a bunch of parts like that and perhaps they can expand to include Elio blocks, heads, pans, etc. But, WHO is that going to be?
THAT is my concern. Now, if you've read this far, WOW. I mean, I can blabber there... sorry about the verbose vocabulary vomit.
The engine. I can't wait to see it. (who will cast that? who will machine that? who will assemble that?)
Ty
Elio Addict
Wow. You were almost as verbose as was I... I also spent 4 years at Hill AFB, UT... coincidence?
Ty
Elio Addict
I worked there and even I couldn't tell you what was at the plant now! I said it in a longer post but I'm pretty sure all they'll do there is assembly and maybe a little frame building/welding... Oh, I think they also said they'd do final engine machining and assembly. But, I don't know anything about engine machinery that may have been put in place after I left.
Ty
Elio Addict
Yeah, I know.
In 2011, Lamborghini's 831 employees produced 1,711 vehicles. Shoot, they've been at it since 1983. How in the world does Elio think 1,500 employees will be able to make 250,000 vehicles when Lamborghini could only put together 1,711????? LOL