The E-series Build.

[Ekh]

From Elio Motors Owners Association:
Rick Deckard Hand laid fiberglass is very different (and heavier) from Molded Plastic Products molded fiberglass which is very similar to SMC (SMC is a trademark product so the names have to be different and this is different but similar) Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic but the Elio had determined that this was more readily available and that Molded Plastic Products had more direct experience with producing body panels than the previous company and this had been planned prior to the development of the P5 - http://moldedplastic.com/

Rick Deckard And now it is Fiber Reinforced Plastic FRB... This Wiki has a lot of the ways things that are FRP are made https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibre-reinforced_plastic

Fibre-reinforced plastic (FRP) (also fibre-reinforced polymer) is a composite material made of a polymer matrix reinforced with fibers. The fibres are usually glass, carbon, aramid, or basalt. Rarely, other fibres such as paper or wood or asbestos have been used. The polymer is usually an epoxy, vin…
en.wikipedia.org

So. how are you going make half a million units of each of the panels (there are 8 or 9 as I recall) annually, using pressure-moulded jFRP? Seems like a massive undertaking. The website of Moulded Plastic Products says 300-8000 units per machine per year are normal. So at maximum production, you're looking at a minimum of 60 machines PER MOULDED PANEL to make up the volume -- and that's the best case. No wonder it costs a couple of hundred mill to get this project up and running.

 

[bunchathrees]

From PR Newswire:

Elio Motors moving towards production, Finalizing Body Panel Design in record time.

Elio Motors, Inc. (OTCQX: ELIO), the startup vehicle manufacturer planning to launch a three-wheeled vehicle that will get up to 84 MPG with a targeted base price of $6,800, today announced it has finalized its body panel design, relying on unprecedented levels of supplier input and collaboration to reduce body panel development time by 90 percent.

"Finalizing the body panel design is another important milestone in our development and our relentless quest to get the Elio to production," said Paul Elio, founder and CEO of Elio Motors. "It's also a great example of how we innovate in every aspect of our operation. We've organized our engineering teams and supplier partners to give them more freedom to provide ideas and decisions. Their collective brainpower is essential in meeting the aggressive cost and quality standards we've set and that our customers demand. The teamwork and talent of our supplier partners was on full display in the body panel development."

The Elio Motors supplier engagement process has grouped the company's engineering team members and supplier partners into eight work groups, each taking responsibility for a specific portion of the vehicle. Within each group, suppliers are encouraged to work directly with each other on a daily basis to brainstorm, review and approve engineering changes that will help Elio Motors get closer to its cost and quality targets. In traditional manufacturer/supplier relationships in the auto industry, even minute decisions must be approved by the manufacturer, which often slows down the development process and adds cost to the vehicle.

For Elio Motors' supplier partners, this inclusive approach is a welcome change to decades-old industry practices.

"The Elio Motors design process is the new paradigm in automotive engineering and design," said Frank Phillips, Jr., president of Molded Plastic Industries. "It allows participating suppliers to bring their best ideas to the table and to work together collaboratively with other product development teams (PDT) for the good of the project. It's very different from the long-standing status quo in getting a vehicle to the commercial production stage. I've worked in the industry since 1982, and have never experienced this much revolutionary development process innovation."

The body panels were designed by the Molded Plastic Development Team, which includes Molded Plastic Industries of Holt, Mich., Excel Pattern of Dearborn, Mich., in collaboration with the Frame Development Team Schwab Industries of Shelby Township, Mich.

"Our Molded Plastic Development Team has done a remarkable job of bringing our Elio vehicle's exterior body panel system to a level of commercial manufacturability in a very short period of time," said Gino Raffin, vice president of manufacturing for Elio Motors. "This feat, combined with our recently announced body framing and engine cradle design release are important steps that show we are rapidly gaining momentum as we move toward production."

The final body panel design is critical from a visual perspective, because it encompasses all of the exterior surfaces that customers will see, and it includes how the door, trunk lid and all body panels fit together. The fit and finish of the panels will impact customer perceptions of quality. The panels also function to repel water, exhaust, road noise and other environmental intrusions into the vehicle's interior, which can not only affect the longevity of the vehicle, but also the comfort of occupants.

About Elio MotorsFounded by car enthusiast Paul Elio in 2009, Elio Motors Inc. represents a revolutionary approach to manufacturing an ultra-high-mileage vehicle. The three-wheeled Elio is engineered to attain a highway mileage rating of up to 84 mpg, while providing the comfort of amenities such as power windows, power door lock and air conditioning, accompanied by the safety of multiple air bags and an aerodynamic, enclosed vehicle body. Elio's first manufacturing site will be in Shreveport, Louisiana.

 

[HonestTex]

Half a million units per year?? Aren't they only projecting 250,000 units? So only 30 machines per panel?

 

[AriLea]

So. how are you going make half a million units of each of the panels (there are 8 or 9 as I recall) annually, using pressure-moulded jFRP? Seems like a massive undertaking. The website of Moulded Plastic Products says 300-8000 units per machine per year are normal. So at maximum production, you're looking at a minimum of 60 machines PER MOULDED PANEL to make up the volume -- and that's the best case. No wonder it costs a couple of hundred mill to get this project up and running.

I'm guessing here, that's 8000 per year, but possibly not per machine? Maybe, that's per mold, a misnomer to state per machine? Otherwise they are saying each machine takes 1 hour cycle rate, that doesn't sound right to me. Or maybe it is.. hhmmmmm.

Wiki: "RIM: It also has the advantage of quick cycle times compared to typical vacuum cast materials."
I remember vacuum catalytic (heated) to be between a dozen minutes to a couple hours at very most. Modern RIM should be faster than that.

What you need is the actual cycle rate. If you have two shifts to make 1000, in 16hours, that's about 1 per minute needed. If each part takes 10minutes cycle rate that's 10machines.

From this link PDF :
Reaction Injection Molding (RIM) ... -Injection process takes 5-10 seconds depending on part size -Cure time 3-9 minutes... -Premold is North America’s leading producer of RIM

So the above would be a few seconds in the machine and some time curing outside of it,,OK then 60+ molds, and maybe 6 machines. for each part.

 

[Ekh]

I'm guessing here, that's 8000 per year, but not per machine, that's per mold. It's a misnomer to state per machine. Otherwise they are saying each machine takes 1 day cycle rate, that doesn't sound right to me.
What you need is the actual cycle rate. If you have two shifts to make 1000, in 16hours, that's about 1 per minute needed. If each part takes 5minutes cycle rate that's 5 machines.

You may be right, but I think that's what they said on their website. I don't know how you're going to slam that much stuff through molds that fast. It's kind of an amazing concept.

 

[WilliamH]

You may be right, but I think that's what they said on their website. I don't know how you're going to slam that much stuff through molds that fast. It's kind of an amazing concept.

If you found it on their web site, go back and find it again and post the URL for that page.
Then we can have a semi intelligent without guessing.

 

[floydv]

If you found it on their web site, go back and find it again and post the URL for that page.
Then we can have a semi intelligent without guessing.

This one?
http://moldedplastic.com/?page_id=30

 

[AriLea]

This one?
http://moldedplastic.com/?page_id=30

OK that one does say "Production volumes of 100 to 3,000 units per tool per year are the typical program volumes.", but again that's not all time in the machine. You only need the machine during the actual injection.

All this panel manufacture may not be at the actual assembly plant, at least at the start. Note, I adjusted my statement above to remove mis-leading guessing.

This is all academic, Elio Motors had all this panel production rate issue figure out a long time ago. Panel, frame and the Engine fabrication are primary considerations.

 

[Marshall]

I'm totally unfamiliar with the process. Does each tool have multiple interchangeable molds so each part can cure more slowly away from the tool as the tool is used for the next mold?

Perhaps 60 Machines per part with 3,000 molds (50/machine)?

Also, what would be involved in reprepping the mold after it completes a cycle?

 

[AriLea]

I'm totally unfamiliar with the process. Does each tool have multiple interchangeable molds so each part can cure more slowly away from the tool as the tool is used for the next mold?

Perhaps 60 Machines per part with 3,000 molds (50/machine)?

Also, what would be involved in reprepping the mold after it completes a cycle?

I could very well be wrong on that, but I've had experience with molding of most types, and it seems they could do it that way.
I'm sure they haven't in the first years of RIM, but now?
However, the Elio facility is an assembly plant. The panels could easily be contract/lot build off site. 60machines or 6 machines, it makes little difference us, they can get her done.
We'll have to hunt for some more direct information on that. Probably a friendly contact to a RIM tooling/machine supplier.