Hello friend have you invested in solar power system? Well I do have similar plans so can you help me out?
Last edited:
-
Welcome to Elio Owners! Join today, registration is easy!
You can register using your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account, just click here.
Start Stop System
- Thread starter Ty
- Start date
Ty
Elio Addict
It is my understanding that some, if not all, start stop systems either have electrically driven a.c. compressors OR are disabled when the a.c. is actually running.
ncarter124
Elio Addict
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Messages
- 121
- Reaction score
- 420
I believe this is the case, at least the latter. My friend had a Civic Hybrid that wouldn't shut off at a stop if you had the A/C running. That was in 2004 so I assume they are a bit more advanced these days. I still remember laughing at him when he realized my 1990 Civic beater got better mpg than his hybrid (42 vs. 45).
I don't have a system yet since I plan to move at some point in the next several years and those things take time to pay for themselves. I plan on making a lot of the system from scratch though since anything i've seen on the commercial market is too expensive and makes the return-on-investment time unreasonable. But that's a very lengthy discussion that I think others would find off-topic here, so I'll refrain from rambling on about it. Welcome to the forum.
ArthurKent
Elio Aficionado
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2014
- Messages
- 69
- Reaction score
- 237
You get into diminishing returns with this kind of system - the smaller the engine, the less the effect.
It also depends heavily upon just how much idling you are forced to do. I don't have any numbers, but
regen braking and a booster electric motor would seem to have typically a much larger effect. Of
course, the cost would be greater. Can't make a decision without more solid information.
It also depends heavily upon just how much idling you are forced to do. I don't have any numbers, but
regen braking and a booster electric motor would seem to have typically a much larger effect. Of
course, the cost would be greater. Can't make a decision without more solid information.
Ty
Elio Addict
True. But, at $250 or less, the Start/Stop system wouldn't break the bank. Well, not for most, anyway. The law of diminishing returns, as you've pointed out probably precludes the inclusion of any further efficiency enhancements for our poor little Elio.
Understandably we want to reduce fossil fuel burning, but ultimately saving money IS saving fuel since one equates to the other. And negligible money saving is negligible fuel saving. Lets say we added a $300 system that saved 5 gallons of fuel over the life of the vehicle. Then we have saved gas at $60 per gallon. I know there are MUCH cheaper ways to save gas. You could bike a few more miles and save much more fuel for free. Carpool, skip the drive-thru and go inside, don't use so much a/c, plan errand times and routes and such, etc, etc. You'll save much more fuel and it won't cost $60 per gallon to do it. And by the way, there is still the option to turn off the engine at your OWN discretion. We mere drivers have that power. And it's entirely possible that switching all the lights to LED will save more fuel than a s/s system for less than $300. For that same money could we maybe take a few more pounds off the vehicle somewhere = continuous fuel savings. As far as that goes most of us could skip the drive-thru and take some weight off OURSELVES to do some real fuel saving. When you start into hyper-efficiency vehicles, weight makes a real difference in fuel consumption. Before we go out and throw money into something with the goal of saving fuel, we should at least see if it's the best bang for uor buck, especially since
Has anyone from Elio ever commented on the possibility of a start/stop system as an option, or possibly as an aftermarket solution?
I would like one for several reasons: in heavy city driving (big cities in the Northeast) it reduces fuel consumption by up to ten percent, with an estimated Elio city mileage of about 50mpg, that is an extra 5mpg, which is quite substantial and fuel economy numbers given for city driving cycles tend to be overly optimistic when compared to real life situations such as rush hour Manhattan traffic. Besides the fuel savings, the main reason why I would like a SSS is the big reduction in CO2 emissions, which is also why such systems are used extensively almost everywhere but in the United States. A possible ten percent or better reduction is significant and environmental impact was one major attraction for me when I went all in on the Elio. I don't need to drive much and often use car sharing, public transportation and bicycles, but when I drive my own vehicle, I like it to have the least environmental impact combined with a reasonable reach, purchase cost and maintenance. Even though I prefer driving cars with manual transmissions, I would buy an Elio with AMT if that would be the only way to get the start/stop option with it. Cost isn't really that much an issue for this, start/stop systems have about the price of a good heated leather seat and people spend money on wheels and radios without ever calculating the cost per year and why would one do that?
What's great too: the batteries required for start/stop systems last up to four times longer, as a rule perform better in extreme weather and under heavy loads. The batteries also deliver constant power and are leak proof and maintenance free, something lead-acid batteries aren't really all that good at. The alternators used, are very efficient (up to 80% = good for fuel economy!) and are also expected to be more reliable and longer lasting. Shutting of the engine reduces wear on engine components and leads to reduced maintenance. Idling is not really good for either the environment, nor the engines (engines are not optimized for idling, but for operating under load) and drivers in Europe have been shutting off their engines at rail crossings for decades for that reason, it's even the law in many places. Having a start/stop system also opens up the possibility of regenerative braking and other fuel saving strategies.
In Europe (according to Bosch) it is expected that by 2017, 70% of new vehicles will be equipped with start/stop systems. The systems are not that expensive anymore, for example Continental (the supplier of Elio's radio) makes a version for economy cars that is used in cheap vehicles in developing countries such as India and can be easily integrated into existing engines and their controls. The systems are very reliable and have no significant impact on drivability. In situations of anticipated high power demand, such as merging with fast traffic, the system can be easily bypassed. There is also no interference with electronic equipment, as the system constantly monitors the required load and decides if there's enough power for a/c, heating and other electric loads, a DC/DC converter usually helps with that. The same goes for braking, if the braking booster is needed, the engine will restart way before the power sinks (brake booster differential pressure sensor).
If Elio Motors can find a way to offer an option of a start/stop system I would be willing to pay much of a premium over the engine without it. Seems like a win/win: very good for the environment, more potential profit for Elio and fuel savings and reliability for me. Having the possibility for such a system would also make the Elio much more competitive in overseas markets, where the fuel economy and environmental regulations are often more advanced when compared to North America. Start/stop systems are the future of internal combustion engines and any engine without it will look very dated in a few years.
I would like one for several reasons: in heavy city driving (big cities in the Northeast) it reduces fuel consumption by up to ten percent, with an estimated Elio city mileage of about 50mpg, that is an extra 5mpg, which is quite substantial and fuel economy numbers given for city driving cycles tend to be overly optimistic when compared to real life situations such as rush hour Manhattan traffic. Besides the fuel savings, the main reason why I would like a SSS is the big reduction in CO2 emissions, which is also why such systems are used extensively almost everywhere but in the United States. A possible ten percent or better reduction is significant and environmental impact was one major attraction for me when I went all in on the Elio. I don't need to drive much and often use car sharing, public transportation and bicycles, but when I drive my own vehicle, I like it to have the least environmental impact combined with a reasonable reach, purchase cost and maintenance. Even though I prefer driving cars with manual transmissions, I would buy an Elio with AMT if that would be the only way to get the start/stop option with it. Cost isn't really that much an issue for this, start/stop systems have about the price of a good heated leather seat and people spend money on wheels and radios without ever calculating the cost per year and why would one do that?
What's great too: the batteries required for start/stop systems last up to four times longer, as a rule perform better in extreme weather and under heavy loads. The batteries also deliver constant power and are leak proof and maintenance free, something lead-acid batteries aren't really all that good at. The alternators used, are very efficient (up to 80% = good for fuel economy!) and are also expected to be more reliable and longer lasting. Shutting of the engine reduces wear on engine components and leads to reduced maintenance. Idling is not really good for either the environment, nor the engines (engines are not optimized for idling, but for operating under load) and drivers in Europe have been shutting off their engines at rail crossings for decades for that reason, it's even the law in many places. Having a start/stop system also opens up the possibility of regenerative braking and other fuel saving strategies.
In Europe (according to Bosch) it is expected that by 2017, 70% of new vehicles will be equipped with start/stop systems. The systems are not that expensive anymore, for example Continental (the supplier of Elio's radio) makes a version for economy cars that is used in cheap vehicles in developing countries such as India and can be easily integrated into existing engines and their controls. The systems are very reliable and have no significant impact on drivability. In situations of anticipated high power demand, such as merging with fast traffic, the system can be easily bypassed. There is also no interference with electronic equipment, as the system constantly monitors the required load and decides if there's enough power for a/c, heating and other electric loads, a DC/DC converter usually helps with that. The same goes for braking, if the braking booster is needed, the engine will restart way before the power sinks (brake booster differential pressure sensor).
If Elio Motors can find a way to offer an option of a start/stop system I would be willing to pay much of a premium over the engine without it. Seems like a win/win: very good for the environment, more potential profit for Elio and fuel savings and reliability for me. Having the possibility for such a system would also make the Elio much more competitive in overseas markets, where the fuel economy and environmental regulations are often more advanced when compared to North America. Start/stop systems are the future of internal combustion engines and any engine without it will look very dated in a few years.
Last edited: