Pwr Brakes

[karl]

The prototype has been panned for having high brake effort. That is a mismatch of bore size in the calipers and master cylinder.

Adding any part adds weight and cost so my guess would be they will get it right without a booster. Brakes turn forward motion into heat. Somewhere in the haze of the back of my mind are the words "energy cannot be created or destroyed, just moved" . Having larger "swept area" lets you dissipate more heat before you boil the hydraulic fluid or overheat the binder (glue) in the friction material in the pads.

The Elio is all about elegance for me. Call it the simple solution if you will. http://www.markwilliams.com/braketech.aspx

 

[karl]

When a system fails like a boosted brake system without a booster or a power steering setup without power you need to make up for what is missing along with what is required to do the job. I have an SM Miata in the garage that has a power steering rack in it. The fluid is gone and the hydraulic lines to and from the pump now carry air and are looped to keep out dirt. Steers just fine when you are moving even with the race rubber. Without the pump fluid belt even bolts to hold it together the car is now lighter and the rack is a bit quicker than the manual version for the car. All vehicles are a compromise. I know the marketing departments of a few companies spend a lot of time and cash to tell you otherwise. But that's the way it is.

 

[Smitty901]

Power brakes in a non issue today. We have disk brakes with ABS on motorcycles that stop on a dime with two fingers on the lever now.
This is not the 1960's any more.
My current touring bike and the weight of an ELIO are close to each other.

 

[Charles Stanley]

Coming late to this discussion, I do not remember anything saying that there would be power breaks. There is a good road test that I read recently. He may have mentioned the breaking, I don't remember, he did however, mention that the car could use power steering. The article is fairly long a detailed. Seems to have been done by someone that was wanting to be detailed, and objective. What impressed me was the authors comments that when he arrived he expected Elio to restrict his driving test to something short and in a restricted space. Well read it for yourself. It is fairly long but worth the time.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/08/exclusive-capsule-review-elio-motors-p4-prototype/

 

[goldwing06]

I hear ya, I had the booster on my F250 diesel go out (no manifold vacuum on diesels, separate belt driven vacuum pump) coming home during rush hour. Thought I was going to break the seat bolts loose trying to get that beast to stop!

it's not what brakes but where are the brakes? looked at all the pix saw the elio in rome. if the brakes r under the front fenders, lt could get warm in there. i was hoping for inboard installation to allow less unsprung weight for better handling and smoother ride. might add a tad more stress to the drive shafts but they looked beefy enough to handle the task. besides, it has that large opening for the suspension arms and heat dump from engine. stick a neat, ventilated ss disk in there so it will get more airflow.

 

[NSTG8R]

it's not what brakes but where are the brakes? looked at all the pix saw the elio in rome. if the brakes r under the front fenders, lt could get warm in there. i was hoping for inboard installation to allow less unsprung weight for better handling and smoother ride. might add a tad more stress to the drive shafts but they looked beefy enough to handle the task. besides, it has that large opening for the suspension arms and heat dump from engine. stick a neat, ventilated ss disk in there so it will get more airflow.

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I like that idea. Have the brake rotors and calipers up where the half-shafts exit the tranny. Could probably drop 10lbs. off the unsprung weight per wheel.

 

[goldwing06]

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I like that idea. Have the brake rotors and calipers up where the half-shafts exit the tranny. Could probably drop 10lbs. off the unsprung weight per wheel.

that sounds reasonable. while we r lamenting the pros of the inboard system, remember the rotating force that is imparted on the steering arms with the expected wear and tear to shorten the suspension components life span, and then realize that these forces, if contained at the base of the half shafts, would only be felt by the frame where the calipers would be mounted. fair to say that this should more than double the suspensions life span before overhaul. and, lighten the steer feel.

 

[wheaters]

Citroen fitted inboard disc brakes for the 2CV. They could also mount the suspension coil over shocks inboard but is there room inboard for either?.

 

[NSTG8R]

Really, the only downside I see to a set up like this (inboard braking) is the extra work required to replace worn discs. Probably have to pull the half-shafts to do it. Then again, if they engineered it right, you might be able to just unbolt the inboard end of the CV joints from the rotors without having to pop the balljoints loose from the wishbones. I've got a feasible design pictured in my head...Thanks a lot Goldwing! Got me redesigning my Elio (again) a full year before I get it!
Man, that would really clean up the looks of the front end for those folks going with open wheels!

Another aftermarket item for Elio's is born.

 

[NSTG8R]

Citroen fitted inboard disc brakes for the 2CV. They could also mount the suspension coil over shocks inboard but is there room inboard for either?.

I don't know Wheaters, but you can bet I'll be spending some time on my back staring at the bottom of my Elio to see if it would! o_O It's something I never even considered until Goldwing brought it up.