Paul Elio Is A Coward.

[Rickb]

Well said RickB. I've stopped wasting my time trying to nail the underlying cause of EM's fall from grace- gave my 1k all-in a 2nd chance when EMV accepted it towards the purchase of their SOLO! I gave the ELIO less than 50% of making it early on when I plunged my 1k but I'm over it, wasn't dreaming about it no more, my 1k's still working for me so I'm good. Been playing my favorite EAGLES song - "Get over it".

The SOLO is closer to the Elio Concept than the FUV, less a seat and front wheel drive. The SOLO has better performance and handling capabilities and the 100 smiles of range is adequate for everyday commutes. The EMV SOLO reservation match offer was a generous marketing strategy by Jerry Kroll. Arcimoto mentioned the idea, but it never materialized. They currently have more reservations than they can build and deliver until production scale plans kick into high rear.

 

[3wheelin]

The SOLO is close to the Elio Concept less a seat. The 100 smiles of range is adequate for everyday commutes. The EMV SOLO reservation match offer was a generous marketing strategy by Jerry Kroll. Arcimoto mentioned the idea, but it never materialized. They currently have more reservations than they can build and deliver until production scale plans kick into high rear.

Remember I'm still in for $100. towards the FUV which is an easy sell for my wife. When ARCIMOTO decides to sell their base FUV. we'll be ready to test drive!

 

[Samuel Gompers]

The SOLO is close to the Elio Concept less a seat and front wheel drive. The SOLO has better performance and handling capabilities and the 100 smiles of range is adequate for everyday commutes. The EMV SOLO reservation match offer was a generous marketing strategy by Jerry Kroll. Arcimoto mentioned the idea, but it never materialized. They currently have more reservations than they can build and deliver until production scale plans kick into high rear.

Close or Not Close?

Not Close:
1-seater vs 2 seater
1-wheel RWD vs FWD
$16k vs $7k
Electric vs Gasoline
Two doors vs one door
Refundable deposits vs non-refundable deposits
Enclosed front wheels vs open wheels
Narrow vs wide
Short vs long
100-mile range vs 670-mile range
3-6 hour fill-ups vs 5-10 minute fill-ups
Changed specs to try to meet regulations vs try to change regulations to meet specs

Close:
Repeatedly fail to meet production deadlines
Repeatedly fail to meet claimed specifications
Repeatedly change specifications
Three wheels
Steering wheel
Enclosed cab
Extremely limited storage
Still can't buy
More talk than product

The old adage applies: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. Both Elio and ElectraMeccanica have shown an overabundunce of incompetence, but Paul Elio has stretched the credibility of incompetence too thin to ignore malice.

 

[Watashiwah]

“Paul Elio has stretched the credibility of incompetence too thin to ignore malice”


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That is absolutely brilliant! That perfectly sums up what likely has happened ! Thanks Sam!! May I use that?

Incidentally Mr Gompers, I did my first “term paper’ (in 4th grade) on you! I remember it pretty well, I think I liked your name!

 

[Made in USA]

Reading the title of the original post "Paul Elio is a coward", it occurred to me that it also applies to the whole board of directors. They definitely do not represent the common shareholders.

 

[3wheelin]

Close or Not Close?

Not Close:
1-seater vs 2 seater
1-wheel RWD vs FWD
$16k vs $7k
Electric vs Gasoline
Two doors vs one door
Refundable deposits vs non-refundable deposits
Enclosed front wheels vs open wheels
Narrow vs wide
Short vs long
100-mile range vs 670-mile range
3-6 hour fill-ups vs 5-10 minute fill-ups
Changed specs to try to meet regulations vs try to change regulations to meet specs

Close:
Repeatedly fail to meet production deadlines
Repeatedly fail to meet claimed specifications
Repeatedly change specifications
Three wheels
Steering wheel
Enclosed cab
Extremely limited storage
Still can't buy
More talk than product

The old adage applies: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. Both Elio and ElectraMeccanica have shown an overabundunce of incompetence, but Paul Elio has stretched the credibility of incompetence too thin to ignore malice.

Hahaha you obviously need to do your research on car manufacturing because changes and deadlines are not unusual occurence. Also, I don't know how one can compare ELIO's "UNREALIZED SPECS" when none has been proven and not a single production unit has been sold! No matter how small the numbers, there's SOLO 3wheelers out there in the real world in the hands of real owners. Now, I'll agree I won't call it a success story YET, or how they're managing their company but trying to judge them without inside knowledge is like judging them guilty before they're tried. We need to expect better from people.

 

[Samuel Gompers]

Hahaha you obviously need to do your research on car manufacturing because changes and deadlines are not unusual occurence. Also, I don't know how one can compare ELIO's "UNREALIZED SPECS" when none has been proven and not a single production unit has been sold! No matter how small the numbers, there's SOLO 3wheelers out there in the real world in the hands of real owners. Now, I'll agree I won't call it a success story YET, or how they're managing their company but trying to judge them without inside knowledge is like judging them guilty before they're tried. We need to expect better from people.

HaHaHa yourself. I was following EMV when they announced finalized specs repeatedly, and that product began in September 2016, and listened to JK spout endless inanities about specs that were blatantly false and about which he was clueless. Perhaps they've miraculously got their act together, but EMV was a clown show for a long time. Like RIck and his FUV, if you want a Solo, I wish you all the best, but I've got no confidence in either company or either vehicle. I will concede that both companies have made changes to their products to both bring them into regulatory compliance and to correct obvious engineering errors.

 

[Rickb]

Samuel, Since you have no experience driving either vehicle, touring manufacturing facilities, talking with owners about their driving experiences, or real interest, your confidence in the vehicle or the company is meaningless. EMV has 50+ SOLO owners testing pre-production SOLOs, a Chinese manufacturing partner, and recently revealed their production model SOLO 3.0. Frohnmayer and his Team have continually met R&D, fundraising, Sig/Beta fleet builds/road testing, certification testing, and production milestones. Arcimoto successfully started delivering retail production FUVs on 9.19.19. That along with a test drive, AMP tour, and discussion with owners provides me with a level of confidence in Arcimoto and their products that includes a cautious level of confidence regarding their chances of long term success. Odds are against them. Thanks for the best wishes.

Tesla Motors made changes to their roll out Roadster, S, X, and Y products to bring them into regulatory compliance and correct obvious engineering errors. Delays are not exclusive to Arcimoto and EMV, it’s typical in the complicated process of bringing a new vehicle to production.

 

[RSchneider]

Tesla Motors made changes to their roll out Roadster, S, X, and Y products to bring them into regulatory compliance and correct obvious engineering errors. Delays are not exclusive to Arcimoto and EMV, it’s typical in the complicated process of bringing a new vehicle to production.

Apples to oranges. Tesla builds real cars, not play toys. Tesla is way more complex over the FUV and Solo combined. Anyone that thinks not, is just drinking too much Kool Aid. Plus, Tesla corrects problems quickly too. Not taking years. Since it took FUV 12 years to get to production, then lets look at Tesla in 2015. At their 12 year anniversary, they has 76K units produced. A growing showroom, service and supercharger network. FUV has probably 100 units produced today, 1 showroom, 1 service area, no charger network. The Tesla has been tested to be extremely safe in accidents by the IIHS and NHTSA (actually got a top rating by both). The FUV, doesn't have to meed the standards Tesla has to. So, who knows how safe the FUV is. The Tesla can be used all over the globe in all types of weather. The FUV is fair weather.

I suggest that we not use Tesla. Maybe just compare the FUV to the Solo and leave it at that. All others have progressed way further.

 

[Samuel Gompers]

Rick, that is a really odd set of criteria you have for deciding whether a company is reliable or a vehicle is worth considering. Of the approximately 30 vehicles (cars, pickups, motorcycles, etc) that I've owned, I have NEVER toured any of their manufacturing facilities, NEVER driven any of them before having a serious interest in buying, and have no recollection of talking to owners prior to becoming interesting in purchasing. For me, test drives were always NO-GO tests. I'd already decided the car/bike/etc fit my needs, and had decided to buy, new if my opinions were confirmed by the test drive, or used if that particular vehicle's condition was acceptable. If you count "talking to owners" as friends coming up to me and asking me to buy their vehicle, then 2 or three would fall in that category. In almost every case, each vehicle that I have owned has been the first of that model that I have ever driven. The exceptions have been repeat purchases, and a couple that were purchased after negotiations had fallen through on another unit.

FWIW, I have test-driven and test-ridden quite a few vehicles that I had not particular interest in buying. I've also lost interest in vehicles after test drives and even test-sits.

As for "real interest", both AM & EMV killed any "real interest" with repeated failures in meeting specs and production targets, as well as their whole Eco-fanaticism. If the product and company can't stand on their own, crying "the sky is falling" does not impress me, either. AM's earlier products were more interesting, and their explanations as to why and how much weight was saved by switching to handlebars simply didn't hold water. Looks (matter of taste), lousy aero, poor range, etc tamped out the rest of the dying embers of interest in the product. My interest in EMV started years before with the Corbin Sparrow. The Solo is much improved on the Sparrow, but still has the 1-rwd traction issues, as well as the standard range, cost, and non-availability issues. Kroll's eco-lunacy as well as engineering incompetence, ignorance, and arrogance destroyed all confidence in both the company and the product.

Like with Elio, my lack of confidence and interest was caused by exploration of the facts, not by willful ignorance. All three companies and products failed, at least for me, because of their choices and actions.