Manual Or Power Steering?

[aknaten]

With all the news of late about defective ignition switches in GM products I've come to the conclusion that the decision NOT to include power steering on the Elio is not a matter of economy or power or necessity. Given that the sudden loss of engine power due to defective switches has been implicated as the direct cause of multiple deaths and numerous crashes, the lack of power steering is a cutting edge safety feature that will be available ONLY on the Elio. At least until other manufacturers begin to see the light and follow their example.
No power steering means no power source to fail. The Elio can suffer a total loss of all engine AND electrical power, and steering will remain completely un-affected. What an incredible advancement in safety technology!
While there is still no official word from NHTSA regarding these new revelations, one expert who's asked to remain annonymous, told me: "we should have thought of this YEARS ago."
Yet, the lingering question remains; What can we do about all those power-steering equipped death-traps on the road which daily place all of us just one blown fuse away from oblivion? Will car companies finally be forced to take these power death units out of our cars, and replace them with this revolutionary non-powered technology? It seems only time will tell. But we have all been finally made aware of the ticking time-bomb that rests under almost every hood in America and throuout the world. Congress needs to act, and do so quickly. Every time an engine stalls, people are dying.

Just the other day I splashed through a deep puddle after a sudden downpour and lost my power steering when the drive belt was drenched and lost all traction. I was able to steer but not easily. This will be one more thing about driving an Elio I won't have to worry about. Hmmm . . . I wonder if it will float.

 

[carzes]

Just the other day I splashed through a deep puddle after a sudden downpour and lost my power steering when the drive belt was drenched and lost all traction. I was able to steer but not easily. This will be one more thing about driving an Elio I won't have to worry about. Hmmm . . . I wonder if it will float.

I have found that without the power assist the steering has a little more resistance at speed than we are ussed to, but not that much. compared to the hyper-sensetive over-assisted steering of most American cars I can see where the difference could be rather notable. Still not a good reason to crash a car in my opinion.
And, incidently, I've been wondering if I could make the thing fly.

 

[Lil4X]

I'd almost come to the conclusion that only German cars float. In a heavy rainstorm and rising water I once floated my Opel - just on tippy-toes - so that the tires touched down often enough to maintain occasional traction and steering control. Fortunately, the flood was only in a small dip - about 50 feet to shallower water. I had no leaks and the engine kept running nicely despite the exhaust gargling through its "motorboat" imitation. Did the same thing with a VW Bug a few years earlier, again trying to be a "U-boat commander", I suppose.

Back in the '50's I regularly rescued stranded motorists who drove off into deep water. At that time your first consideration if you got in too deep was to keep the engine running at all costs. If it quits, you're done - and in for some expensive repairs. If you were forced to cross deep water (say for instance escaping a rising tide at the beach), the trick before proceeding was to shut off the engine, open the hood and cut the fan belt (not so easy with today's steel-cored belts). That kept the fan from throwing water all over the engine compartment and shorting out the ignition. A small sacrifice, but it would get you out of a bad spot. Not too elegant, but it would help you keep your car from becoming a reef.

Judicious application of a bit of RTV or Flexseal might not make your Elio float, but it might plug up any leaks where water might splash. I don't think I'd want to take my Elio on a cruise, especially since the lightly loaded tail would probably float first. Maybe if you fitted separate brake pedals to the drive wheels you could still steer with differential braking rather than "crab". It worked for John Deere.

 

[aknaten]

I used to drive a school bus in rural NW Oklahoma. Not all the creeks had bridges. Some were just paved with concrete with a drainage tube under the top layer. When the water flowed over the top, we used a vertical measuring board to gauge the depth. If it was under a certain mark (1 foot I think) we could drive through and not take the longer route to a bridge. One morning I took the route in my '62 VW Bug and forgot to look at the depth marker. It was deep enough that my wheels left the roadway for a couple of LOOONG seconds and I began to float downstream. My momentum carried me far enough to reach the roadway and I made it through. VW's do float, at least for a bit.

 

[Edward43]

Only if you feed him beans!

With all the news of late about defective ignition switches in GM products I've come to the conclusion that the decision NOT to include power steering on the Elio is not a matter of economy or power or necessity. Given that the sudden loss of engine power due to defective switches has been implicated as the direct cause of multiple deaths and numerous crashes, the lack of power steering is a cutting edge safety feature that will be available ONLY on the Elio. At least until other manufacturers begin to see the light and follow their example.
No power steering means no power source to fail. The Elio can suffer a total loss of all engine AND electrical power, and steering will remain completely un-affected. What an incredible advancement in safety technology!
While there is still no official word from NHTSA regarding these new revelations, one expert who's asked to remain annonymous, told me: "we should have thought of this YEARS ago."
Yet, the lingering question remains; What can we do about all those power-steering equipped death-traps on the road which daily place all of us just one blown fuse away from oblivion? Will car companies finally be forced to take these power death units out of our cars, and replace them with this revolutionary non-powered technology? It seems only time will tell. But we have all been finally made aware of the ticking time-bomb that rests under almost every hood in America and throuout the world. Congress needs to act, and do so quickly. Every time an engine stalls, people are dying.

Hallelujah! Amen, and Amen..

 

[Edward43]

I think we may be overstating the case a bit. The failure for GM was that far more vehicles succumbed to being switched off due to the design of the switch. Couple this with the fact that the air bags wouldn't deploy with the ignition in the "off" position, and the power steering pump and power brake boost aren't working, and an unskilled driver will careen into whatever is in front of them. I suspect most of the fatalities could have been avoided if the airbags had deployed. Manhandling a stalled car requires greater force when working against the power steering pump and no brake assist. It's really a matter of awareness and training. Sadly, I suspect the majority of drivers in our country only know automatic transmissions, power steering and power (disk) brakes.

Yes, the simpler Elio will bring us back to an earlier era, but I can see a counter-argument raised that power steering and brakes permit certain drivers the added capability to avoid some crisis situations.

True, But, that argument can go both ways. (Just say-in.).

 

[wizard of ahs]

I too was impressed with the specs and general good looks of this 3 wheeled Elio. It mentioned a/c, power windows but does it also comes with power steering?

I certainly hope not

 

[karl]

A manual steering only car.

 

[outsydthebox]

I guess that is the heart of the question. An 'unskilled driver'.
I am no advocate for GM, but there are issues here that don't add up, and I am willing to ask politically incorrect questions.
What percentage of our drivers are 'unskilled'? for example. Why is it someone else's fault that they can't handle the same kind of vehicle malfunction that a 'skilled' driver can? Why do we allow 'unskilled' drivers on the road? Aren't they a danger to other drivers, and themselves? Have we NO expectation of a driver's ability to handle a vehicle emergency? Where do we draw the line? If my air conditioning goes out can I blame the manufacturer for crashing my car 'cause I had sweat in my eye?
I drove a car for a year that had the power steering pump disconnected. At anything over 5 mph you could barely tell the difference. There is no loss of steering unless the steering lock actually engaged, which I have not heard alledged. Brakes are a bit different I'll admit, but I still have to wonder how many accidents brake booster failure should cause? How much of my driving time am I in a position where booster failure will result in an accident? And a FATAL accident? Almost NEVER.
The scenario we are supposed to believe is that at the exact moment of highest brake booster dependence the ignition switch falls to the off position, shutting down the engine. And somehow the remaining vacuum in the system is insufficient to bring the vehicle at LEAST to a slow enough speed to make the resulting collision survivable without airbag deployment.
Again, I am no advocate for GM, but I'm not buying it. Is it possible that the ignition switch problem was found to be a convenient excuse for accidents that might have had nothing to do with it? A little coaching of the 'victims' and suddenly routine bad-driving accidents become a multi-million dollar lawsuit against GM. What is the more likely scenario? Does our legal system really work that way? You BET it does!
I know I'm about to get seriously flame-broiled for this, but I just don't accept everything at face value. Maybe I'm wrong?

Well said!
I agree that in this day and age, litigation is out of control! When (I read about) a woman shopping in a clothing store, "trips" and falls due to an "out of control child", breaks her wrist and is awarded $125K settlement.......and it was her child!!!
I also agree that there are too many "unskilled" drivers on the roads. What really bothers me is when someone says, "I would NOT allow my child to drive an Elio Because "he/she" is not a good driver. For "his/her" safety, I make them drive the "tank". IMO, they might as well say, "I'm ok with my "unskilled" child operating a lethal weapon... as long as it's only dangerous to someone elses child."
I think there Is another category. This is the "skilled driver" that no longer has the physical "strength." For them, It isn't "power assist". I knew a woman who got stuck in her "power lift recliner" because of a power outage! I mean no disrespect to those people, as ''It is the eventuality of us all." Many of them do not have family to do the driving and "Public transportation" is not available. Their choices/options are limited. Kind of a "catch 22."

 

[azurehenfruit]

With all the news of late about defective ignition switches in GM products I've come to the conclusion that the decision NOT to include power steering on the Elio is not a matter of economy or power or necessity. Given that the sudden loss of engine power due to defective switches has been implicated as the direct cause of multiple deaths and numerous crashes, the lack of power steering is a cutting edge safety feature that will be available ONLY on the Elio. At least until other manufacturers begin to see the light and follow their example.
No power steering means no power source to fail. The Elio can suffer a total loss of all engine AND electrical power, and steering will remain completely un-affected. What an incredible advancement in safety technology!
While there is still no official word from NHTSA regarding these new revelations, one expert who's asked to remain annonymous, told me: "we should have thought of this YEARS ago."
Yet, the lingering question remains; What can we do about all those power-steering equipped death-traps on the road which daily place all of us just one blown fuse away from oblivion? Will car companies finally be forced to take these power death units out of our cars, and replace them with this revolutionary non-powered technology? It seems only time will tell. But we have all been finally made aware of the ticking time-bomb that rests under almost every hood in America and throuout the world. Congress needs to act, and do so quickly. Every time an engine stalls, people are dying.

As one who has never felt much attraction to power steering, I have read this thread with interest. This comes from one who ordered a full sized GMC pickup without power steering in 1976, is still driving it, and has felt the lack of power assist only several times in all of those years! During the 1960’s and 1970’s, I found power steering so “touchy” that I did not want it, but I must confess that there is much more “feel” to more recent power steering units.

When I received the following “daily joke” from www.gcfl.net yesterday, I was reminded of the power steering discussion:

Manual Typewriter

The boys had been up in the attic together helping with some cleaning. The kids uncovered an old manual typewriter and asked her, "Hey, Mom, what's this?"

"Oh, that's an old typewriter," she answered, thinking that would satisfy their curiosity.

"Well, what does it do?" they queried.

"I'll show you," their mother said. She went downstairs and returned with a blank piece of paper. She rolled the paper into the typewriter and began striking the keys, leaving black letters of print on the page.

"WOW!" the boys exclaimed, "That's really cool -- but how does it work like that? Where do you plug it in?"

"There is no plug," she answered. "It doesn't need a plug."

"Then where do you put the batteries?" they persisted.

"It doesn't need batteries either," she continued.

"Wow! This is so cool!" the brothers exclaimed. "Someone should have invented this a long time ago!"