Latest On Production Date: Q4 2016

[WilliamH]

Face the facts there will be delays and more delays. Each one takes us closer to never seeing production. That does not mean it won't happen just becomes less likely.
Tesla has a lot of money behind it along with political power. Things go much easier with those two things working for you.

Facing facts? If the DoE would provide the ATVM loan there would be no more questions. Remember Tesla got a $465 Million loan for a car where the first prototype had not yet rolled out. A car that 7/8 of the tax paying public can't afford to buy. A car that the people who could afford to buy got a $7K tax credit on courtesy of the 85% who couldn't afford it.
Guess those were the facts you were talking about.
Do you suppose we are seeing certain people picking winners and losers again?

 

[Rickb]

Facing facts? If the DoE would provide the ATVM loan there would be no more questions. Remember Tesla got a $465 Million loan for a car where the first prototype had not yet rolled out. A car that 7/8 of the tax paying public can't afford to buy. A car that the people who could afford to buy got a $7K tax credit on courtesy of the 85% who couldn't afford it.
Guess those were the facts you were talking about.
Do you suppose we are seeing certain people picking winners and losers again?

The Tesla Roadster concept development and 26 prototypes had been built/ tested over a 5 year period prior to The Tesla Roadster's start of production in 2007- 08. By January 2009 Tesla had millions in private funding locked in (not to mention Musks personal Billions), an up and running state of the art manufacturing facility, trained employees, and had delivered 147 cars........perhaps not many, but the $109K Base MSRP translates to a bunch of $6800 Elios. Also, Tesla Motors didn't need the ATVM loan to start production or stay in business.

In June of 2009 Tesla was approved to receive $465 million in INTEREST bearing LOANS from the DOE. The ATVM Loan had nothing to do with who can afford Tesla's vehicles............but helps to develop the technology to insure that more of us that see the value in EVs can afford them in the future. The $35K Tesla Model 3 in 2017, should roll out about the same time as the Elio.

Tesla was established, had sales (source of revenue), and the assests to guarantee the loans repayment that has since been repaid years early.

Unfortunate Fact: Elio Motors is not quite up to Tesla's benchmark ATVM loan approval status just yet.

 

[pistonboy]

Face the facts there will be delays and more delays. Each one takes us closer to never seeing production. That does not mean it won't happen just becomes less likely.
Tesla has a lot of money behind it along with political power. Things go much easier with those two things working for you.

Elio Motors can have all the money they want, any time they want. People have been willing to bank roll Elio Motors but they want the usual amount of control that comes with investing big money. This is standard. Paul Elio does not want to share power so they have no money so far. This has been stated two times on this forum and the information has come from Elio personnel and it has been posted by posters who I consider reliable.

If all else fails, I believe Paul Elio will be willing to share power to get the money but will do that as a last resort. I believe he is first going down all "non-sharing of power" avenues first and will take that "sharing of power" avenue only as a last resort. He may have a list in his desk of people to call.

 

[Rickb]

Facing facts? If the DoE would provide the ATVM loan there would be no more questions. Remember Tesla got a $465 Million loan for a car where the first prototype had not yet rolled out. A car that 7/8 of the tax paying public can't afford to buy. A car that the people who could afford to buy got a $7K tax credit on courtesy of the 85% who couldn't afford it.
Guess those were the facts you were talking about.
Do you suppose we are seeing certain people picking winners and losers again?

The Elio is a vehicle that 8/8 of the tax paying public can afford, but what % will buy one and is there a long term market for an autocycle class of commuter vehicle beyond the current reservation levels. I think enough people will buy one to make EM profitable, but there is no guarantee of future sales. I haven't driven an Elio to determine the ride, performance, handling, build quality, and safety rating. Those are important considerations for most drivers when purchasing a vehicle not just price alone. I know I'll test drive and I ass.u.me. I'll buy one, If it meets or beats my expectations maybe two.

Tesla provides some 6000 jobs which is good for the economy. Tesla will provide many more jobs when their Gigafactory is up, running, and churning out batteries for Tesla Cars and supplying USA manufactured batteries for their competitor's cars as well. The $7K tax credit is incentive for people to buy EVs that makes it possible for that boost in EV market sales and the economy. Go Tesla! Current Winner and Go Elio! Hopeful Winner! No losers!

 

[WilliamH]

The Tesla Roadster concept development and 26 prototypes had been built/ tested years prior to The Tesla Roadster's start of production in 2008. By January 2009 Tesla had millions in private funding locked in (not to mention Musks personal Billions), an up and running state of the art manufacturing facility, trained employees, and had delivered 147 cars........perhaps not many, but at over $100K MSRP translates to a bunch of $6800 Elios. Also, Tesla Motors didn't need the ATVM loan to start production or stay in business.

In June of 2009 Tesla was approved to receive $465 million in INTEREST bearing LOANS from the DOE. The ATVM Loan had nothing to do with who can afford Tesla's vehicles............but helps to develop the technology to insure that more of us that see the value in EVs can afford them in the future. The $35K Tesla Model 3 in 2017, should roll out about the same time as the Elio.

Tesla was established, had sales (source of revenue), and the assests to guarantee the loans repayment that has since been repaid years early.

Unfortunate Fact: Elio Motors is not quite up to Tesla's benchmark ATVM loan approval status just yet.

Perhaps you should read Tesla's history. If I were starting a car company, I would look at the history of Mark Tarpenning and Martin Eberhard and try to avoid their fate. When you look at that you see that they were a couple of sharp guys who had a good idea. That idea was hijacked by a guy with a lot of money and financial connections in Silicon Valley.
If I was Paul Elio I would be very careful about who got a significant interest in my company. You can read a lot of the history here ----> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors <----
There is a lot of good information in that Wiki. Good validation why you need to produce your own product rather than subcontracting major components.

 

[Rickb]

Perhaps you should read Tesla's history. If I were starting a car company, I would look at the history of Mark Tarpenning and Martin Eberhard and try to avoid their fate. When you look at that you see that they were a couple of sharp guys who had a good idea. That idea was hijacked by a guy with a lot of money and financial connections in Silicon Valley.
If I was Paul Elio I would be very careful about who got a significant interest in my company. You can read a lot of the history here ----> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors <----
There is a lot of good information in that Wiki. Good validation why you need to produce your own product rather than subcontracting major components.

I did read Tesla's history........as you should have........prior to making your statements regarding Tesla Motor's $465 million ATVM loan and comparing it to Elio Motor's application. They are not even close to the same scenarios.

Paul Elio has a good shot at making it happen. However, if a sharp Paul Elio ultimately isn't able the manage the financials to get his good idea to production..........I hope a guy with Elon Musk's financial status and ability to get things done would take it over to create a successful company that gets Elios in our driveways.

The key for me is an Elio in my driveway.

 

[WilliamH]

I did read Tesla's history........as you should have........prior to making your statements regarding Tesla Motor's $465 million ATVM loan and comparing it to Elio Motor's application. They are not even close to the same scenarios.

Paul Elio has a good shot at making it happen. However, if a sharp Paul Elio ultimately isn't able the manage the financials to get his good idea to production..........I hope a guy with Elon Musk's financial status and ability to get things done would take it over to create a successful company that gets Elios in our driveways.

The point you missed is that Tesla did not make the Roadster. They put a drive train into a body/chassis produced by Lotus. And when the spec changed because a third party made changes, the Roadster was history. The point being that companys like DBR make D Type Jaguars sort of, but not really.
Further, at the time they received the loan they had never made a profit.
And No! they are not the same thing. I still can't afford a Tesla. And my money is still being taken by the government to subsidize other peoples cars which they probably wouldn't buy if not for the $7K tax subsidy.

 

[Rickb]

The point you missed is that Tesla did not make the Roadster. They put a drive train into a body/chassis produced by Lotus. And when the spec changed because a third party made changes, the Roadster was history. The point being that companys like DBR make D Type Jaguars sort of, but not really.
Further, at the time they received the loan they had never made a profit.
And No! they are not the same thing. I still can't afford a Tesla. And my money is still being taken by the government to subsidize other peoples cars which they probably wouldn't buy if not for the $7K tax subsidy.

The point is Tesla was an established business, with a product to sell, with value and collateral to repay the ATVM Loan. Again they did not rely soley on the ATVM loan to manufacture a product, which I understand is an ATVM Loan approval requirement. It appears that EM in its current financial state can't begin the process of tooling the plant, hiring/training employees, and manufacturing the Elio without it.

My guess is your tax dollar wasn't actually used for the EV tax credit incentive initiated to help develop alternative energy vehicles, but rather your tax dollar was used for a government program you support. Does anybody see any actual value or benefit from the government's role in developing new technology.........I do. It creates future jobs and helps to guarantee a growing future economy. Heck it may help to insure future Elio jobs.

To balance out your tax dollar issue there has been some Louisiana taxpayer's State and Local tax dollar incentives already spent to help the future Elio to production and the State's tax incentives will continue for a long time if production actually starts. I suspect the Shreveport and other Louisiana residents with no interest in driving an Elio are bitching about their tax dollars being used as well.

Maybe someday we will both be able to afford Tesla's and buy an Elio. Blah, blah, blah.

Note: By the way I don't think Tesla is currently showing a profit on their vehicles, but they have actual cash out dollar value as an established company. It will take years before Elio Motors would show a bottom line proft as a new startup as well.

 

[WilliamH]

The point is Tesla was an established business, with a product to sell, with value and collateral to repay the ATVM Loan. Again they did not rely soley on the ATVM loan to manufacture a product, which I understand is an ATVM Loan approval requirement. It appears that EM in its current financial state can't begin the process of tooling the plant, hiring/training employees, and manufacturing the Elio without it.

My guess is your tax dollar wasn't actually used for the EV tax credit incentive initiated to help develop alternative energy vehicles, but rather your tax dollar was used for a government program you support. Does anybody see any actual value or benefit from the government's role in developing new technology.........I do. It creates future jobs and helps to guarantee a growing future economy. Heck it may help to insure future Elio jobs.

To balance out your tax dollar issue there has been some Louisiana taxpayer's State and Local tax dollar incentives already spent to help the future Elio to production and the State's tax incentives will continue for a long time if production actually starts. I suspect the Shreveport and other Louisiana residents with no interest in driving an Elio are bitching about their tax dollars being used as well.

Maybe someday we will both be able to afford Tesla's and buy an Elio. Blah, blah, blah.

Note: By the way I don't think Tesla is currently showing a profit on their vehicles, but they have actual cash out dollar value as an established company. It will take years before Elio Motors would show a bottom line proft as a new startup as well.

Extract from Wiki ..........."In June 2009 Tesla was approved to receive US$465 million in interest-bearing loans from the United States Department of Energy. The funding, part of the US$8 billion Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program, supports engineering and production of the Model S sedan, as well as the development of commercial powertrain technology"...........

In December 2008, Tesla did a 5th round of financing avoiding bankruptcy.

If I were reading all of that today, I would not think that they were a good risk.

By January 2009, Tesla had raised US$187 million and delivered 147 cars. (These were the Lotus "gliders" that Tesla put drive trains in.)

You keep using terms like "my guess is", maybe someday"..... Not reassuring.

Tesla didn't acquire a manufacturing facility until June of 2010. Hmmm.......... A year after the DoE loan.

It sound like they were skating on the same type of thin ice that Elio is on. Maybe worse.

Sound to me [ like that one?] like Washington is trying to pick winners and losers based on their donors environmental views.

 

[Rickb]

Extract from Wiki ..........."In June 2009 Tesla was approved to receive US$465 million in interest-bearing loans from the United States Department of Energy. The funding, part of the US$8 billion Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program, supports engineering and production of the Model S sedan, as well as the development of commercial powertrain technology"...........

In December 2008, Tesla did a 5th round of financing avoiding bankruptcy.

If I were reading all of that today, I would not think that they were a good risk.

By January 2009, Tesla had raised US$187 million and delivered 147 cars. (These were the Lotus "gliders" that Tesla put drive trains in.)

You keep using terms like "my guess is", maybe someday"..... Not reassuring.

Tesla didn't acquire a manufacturing facility until June of 2010. Hmmm.......... A year after the DoE loan.

It sound like they were skating on the same type of thin ice that Elio is on. Maybe worse.

Sound to me [ like that one?] like Washington is trying to pick winners and losers based on their donors environmental views.

It's all extract and how you spin it. "My guess" is that "maybe someday" Elio will have the same value for it's investors as Tesla Motor's has for theirs. Guess + Hope = a Win someday soon. No losers. Reassuring for me.

I like that one very much! Sounds to me like everything you say is fact. lol