I Shall Call It "total Enviormental Impact!"

[tonyspumoni]

Simple physics says that in terms of energy use, the Elio will be more environmentally friendly than the Leaf, the Tesla, or any vehicle outweighing it by a wide margin. F=MA cannot be contravened - force is proportional to moving mass. 39% of electrical energy is generated through the burning of coal and 27% by natural gas (http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3). Throw in transmission losses of 6% (http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=105&t=3) and that 3243 lb Nissan Leaf will actually use MORE fossil fuels than an Elio, even factoring in regenerative braking gains. And while regenerative braking can indeed capture about half of the kinetic energy, it doesn't double fuel economy for the simple reason that most of the time we are driving we are NOT braking (http://proev.com/LLPgs/LLei0005.htm)

It is true that lithium can be recycled but not indefinitely and when a lithium battery does neet to be discarded it is also incredibly toxic and requires remediation.

An aerodynmic body style, appropriately sized motor, light weight, and low rolling resistance will make the Elio a very, very efficient vehicle, and one I won't feel guilty driving.

 

[Rickb]

Simple physics says that in terms of energy use, the Elio will be more environmentally friendly than the Leaf, the Tesla, or any vehicle outweighing it by a wide margin. F=MA cannot be contravened - force is proportional to moving mass. 39% of electrical energy is generated through the burning of coal and 27% by natural gas (http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3). Throw in transmission losses of 6% (http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=105&t=3) and that 3243 lb Nissan Leaf will actually use MORE fossil fuels than an Elio, even factoring in regenerative braking gains. And while regenerative braking can indeed capture about half of the kinetic energy, it doesn't double fuel economy for the simple reason that most of the time we are driving we are NOT braking (http://proev.com/LLPgs/LLei0005.htm)

It is true that lithium can be recycled but not indefinitely and when a lithium battery does neet to be discarded it is also incredibly toxic and requires remediation.

An aerodynmic body style, appropriately sized motor, light weight, and low rolling resistance will make the Elio a very, very efficient vehicle, and one I won't feel guilty driving.

Yes, but when comparing keep in mind Elio is 1/2 a vehicle designed to move two people max with little cargo space/weight. I wouldn't feel guilty driving a Tesla Model X as my second car either.........now if I could only afford one.

The Elio would be even more environmentally friendly as an EV.........lighter weight, smaller battery pack.......certainly over $6800......high performance, and may claim 456 mpge with 0 emissions saving even more $ in fuel and maintenace cost over it's life time. I know there may still be range issues, but most owners will be using the Elio as a commuter.

 

[Smitty901]

How often do you really see more than two people in most cars ? Hybrid electrics are not efficient. They hide subsidized cost both to build and operate.

 

[tonyspumoni]

How often do you really see more than two people in most cars ? Hybrid electrics are not efficient. They hide subsidized cost both to build and operate.

Agreed. And I'll hazard a guess that recycling that lithium is a very energy-intensive process in its own right. And I though I can afford a Tesla I wouldn't own one - I've got enough sanctimony in my life to be going on with as it is, thanks. I know Tesla owners and all of them drive them with a simpering richey-rich smile that I find galling. And they drive slowly in the fast lane, like they own it. (They are damn fast when annoyed, but that's another story for another time - I did win, but it was a close shave).

Too frequently we don't factor in all the factors that impact energy consumption when we speak to energy efficiency and Smitty901 raises an important point. It takes energy to mine and refine ores, to mine exotic metals for batteries for cars that have them, to stamp steel and aluminum, to make batteries and engines, to fill the vehicle with its energy source, and finally, when it's all sadness and doneness, to put it all back into the ground in a way that won't kill us, our kids, or our kids' kids. The Elio wins over the Tesla from the energy perspective hands down.

I have spent a considerable amount of time wondering where else in all my life I have seen more of a potential win-win-win (cheap-efficient-looks) and the only product that had the same impact I think the Elio can have is the iPod. Every other consumer product is evolutionary - the Elio has the potential to be revolutionary.

 

[TeamCoconutOreo]

2

Agreed. And I'll hazard a guess that recycling that lithium is a very energy-intensive process in its own right. And I though I can afford a Tesla I wouldn't own one - I've got enough sanctimony in my life to be going on with as it is, thanks. I know Tesla owners and all of them drive them with a simpering richey-rich smile that I find galling. And they drive slowly in the fast lane, like they own it. (They are damn fast when annoyed, but that's another story for another time - I did win, but it was a close shave).

Too frequently we don't factor in all the factors that impact energy consumption when we speak to energy efficiency and Smitty901 raises an important point. It takes energy to mine and refine ores, to mine exotic metals for batteries for cars that have them, to stamp steel and aluminum, to make batteries and engines, to fill the vehicle with its energy source, and finally, when it's all sadness and doneness, to put it all back into the ground in a way that won't kill us, our kids, or our kids' kids. The Elio wins over the Tesla from the energy perspective hands down.

I have spent a considerable amount of time wondering where else in all my life I have seen more of a potential win-win-win (cheap-efficient-looks) and the only product that had the same impact I think the Elio can have is the iPod. Every other consumer product is evolutionary - the Elio has the potential to be revolutionary.

Thank you! WE SPEAK YOUR NAME!

Hey now! You get my point. Our dependence in oil is not only reflected in the tail pipe, it's seen in the whole process of making and owning a car. That was my initial question. Which will consume less total energy from conception to death (aka life cycle)?

Edit: my opinion is, due to it's size, simplicity and efficiency EM would win! I biased, clearly.

 

[tonyspumoni]

2


Thank you! WE SPEAK YOUR NAME!

Hey now! You get my point. Our dependence in oil is not only reflected in the tail pipe, it's seen in the whole process of making and owning a car. That was my initial question. Which will consume less total energy from conception to death (aka life cycle)?

Edit: my opinion is, due to it's size, simplicity and efficiency EM would win! I biased, clearly.

From dirt to car to dirt the Elio will absolutely have a lower footprint. Again, simple physics. Less mass to build, less mass to move, and no significant difference in friction losses.

 

[tonyspumoni]

....and by speaking my name you must mean that you've seen me drive. I am a raging lunatic, but always with turn signals. And that Tesla won't be forgetting me any time soon, I can tell you that.

 

[TeamCoconutOreo]

....and by speaking my name you must mean that you've seen me drive. I am a raging lunatic, but always with turn signals. And that Tesla won't be forgetting me any time soon, I can tell you that.

No it's a silly Opra refrence that Howard Stern fans make fun of. She had some celebrating womon celeberty special where all these woman canted to each others accomplishments. IE, they would anoounce Barbara Walters and speak about her accomplishments, then all the nuts would chant, " Barbara Walters, we speak your name!" Spooky........ google t you'll get a laugh. I use it to recignize good points in conversation and blogs. It's also a good way to spot Howard fans.

 

[tonyspumoni]

No it's a silly Opra refrence that Howard Stern fans make fun of. She had some celebrating womon celeberty special where all these woman canted to each others accomplishments. IE, they would anoounce Barbara Walters and speak about her accomplishments, then all the nuts would chant, " Barbara Walters, we speak your name!" Spooky........ google t you'll get a laugh. I use it to recignize good points in conversation and blogs. It's also a good way to spot Howard fans.

Ah. Sorry. I am probably the most culturally illiterate human on this forum. I usually get such valuable lessons from my kids, accompanied by the obligatory shaking of the head and the rolling of the eyes, but heck, I'll learn from anyone. I have to admit that the prospect of one self-aggrandizing celebrity poking fun at another does intrigue me - kinda like a girl fight at school used to. I'll check it out. Thanks.

 

[JEBar]

until battery technology makes some major advances, I don't see an electric Elio .... there simply isn't sufficient space to put a sufficient number of batteries to give it sufficient range .... in addition, the weight of the batteries would take away one of the vehicle's major positives

Jim