I Shall Call It "total Enviormental Impact!"

[TeamCoconutOreo]

I have read several articles and comments in different places where people call Elio part of the problem due to it's internal combustion power plant.

I would love to see a real comparison of the environmental impact of so called green cars compared to Elio.

Let's think about the very trendy electric car from Nissan, the Leaf. Yes it's true that the leaf produces zero emissions out the tail pipe, but compared to an Elio how much more impact to the environment will getting a heavier car from manufacturing to you local dealer than the Elio make? How long could you drive the Elio for the difference?

What about the the environmental impact of turning the raw materials into usable materials at the car plant? With the Elio being significant simpler with many less parts, the enviormental impact would be much less than that of the Leaf. How many more miles can I drive the Elio before breaking even?

I'm sure we can collectively come up with more ways that the Elio impacts the environment less than most (if not all) so called green cars.

Am I on the right track hère or am I looking at this through rose colored glasses. Is it possible that Elio could be greener than the Leaf (or you fill in the blank) in "Total Environmental Impact" than any other car made?

 

[zelio]

I have read several articles and comments in different places where people call Elio part of the problem due to it's internal combustion power plant.

I would love to see a real comparison of the environmental impact of so called green cars compared to Elio.

Let's think about the very trendy electric car from Nissan, the Leaf. Yes it's true that the leaf produces zero emissions out the tail pipe, but compared to an Elio how much more impact to the environment will getting a heavier car from manufacturing to you local dealer than the Elio make? How long could you drive the Elio for the difference?

What about the the environmental impact of turning the raw materials into usable materials at the car plant? With the Elio being significant simpler with many less parts, the enviormental impact would be much less than that of the Leaf. How many more miles can I drive the Elio before breaking even?

I'm sure we can collectively come up with more ways that the Elio impacts the environment less than most (if not all) so called green cars.

Am I on the right track hère or am I looking at this through rose colored glasses. Is it possible that Elio could be greener than the Leaf (or you fill in the blank) in "Total Environmental Impact" than any other car made?

I'm not familiar with the Leaf other than on here, but I can't help but wonder what kind of environmental impact the EV batteries have on the environment. Are they recyclable? Once each vehicle is removed to a junk yard whether because of age or accident, what will the impact be on the environment? If I'm not supposed to throw away (in the trash) normal everyday batteries (AAA, AA, etc.), what happens to these more powerful batteries? Z

 

[TeamCoconutOreo]

I'm not familiar with the Leaf other than on here, but I can't help but wonder what kind of environmental impact the EV batteries have on the environment. Are they recyclable? Once each vehicle is removed to a junk yard whether because of age or accident, what will the impact be on the environment? If I'm not supposed to throw away (in the trash) normal everyday batteries (AAA, AA, etc.), what happens to these more powerful batteries? Z

I believe the leaf uses lithium ion batteries (I'll check that later). I'm pretty sure it's nor very wnciornmentally friendly to make from ground to home.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Hi TCO, welcome to the forum!

Yes agreed, there are so many more aspects to consider, other than tail pipe emissions. Transporting the vehicle to a dealer... making a car that is smaller and has less parts takes less energy to make... and as Z said, is the battery in an EV recyclable?

One aspect I've thought of, would love to get everyone's take: the production of the extra electricity to charge the EV. Depending on use, the EV might get plugged in to charge, once a week or 5 times a week. Unless you live close to a nuclear plant or a hydroelectric plant or a bank of wind turbines, won't the electricity be generated, by putting pollutants into the air from coal or natural gas engines at a power plant?

If someone says that Elio is "part of the problem" due to its ICE, they are stating an opinion that is easy to counter. Will most folks that are buying Elios, be looking at buying an EV if the Elio is not available? These days, as high cost as EV's are, no way. Maybe 5-10% of folks reserving an Elio would buy an EV if Elio magically went away.

Elio's ICE will be the most efficient engine on unleaded gas in the U.S. How is that part of the problem? We should all be buying less efficient engines instead?

I'm with you TCO, I don't see how an Elio can be anything but part of a solution, to too much CO being put into the air.

(steps down off soap box) Thank you, thank you everyone. I'll be here all week, be sure and tip your server!

 

[Jay3wheel]

Hi TCO, welcome to the forum!

Yes agreed, there are so many more aspects to consider, other than tail pipe emissions. Transporting the vehicle to a dealer... making a car that is smaller and has less parts takes less energy to make... and as Z said, is the battery in an EV recyclable?

One aspect I've thought of, would love to get everyone's take: the production of the extra electricity to charge the EV. Depending on use, the EV might get plugged in to charge, once a week or 5 times a week. Unless you live close to a nuclear plant or a hydroelectric plant or a bank of wind turbines, won't the electricity be generated, by putting pollutants into the air from coal or natural gas engines at a power plant?

If someone says that Elio is "part of the problem" due to its ICE, they are stating an opinion that is easy to counter. Will most folks that are buying Elios, be looking at buying an EV if the Elio is not available? These days, as high cost as EV's are, no way. Maybe 5-10% of folks reserving an Elio would buy an EV if Elio magically went away.

Elio's ICE will be the most efficient engine on unleaded gas in the U.S. How is that part of the problem? We should all be buying less efficient engines instead?

I'm with you TCO, I don't see how an Elio can be anything but part of a solution, to too much CO being put into the air.

(steps down off soap box) Thank you, thank you everyone. I'll be here all week, be sure and tip your server!

I can add to this snowball of ecology, what percentage of the new Elios will be removing another vehicle with a larger carbon footprint. That is the where the the biggest environmental impact will occur. Being on average three times as economical as the cars they replace, reduction in total fuel burned. Most improvements to the environment are not 100% gains, but every gain is still a gain.

 

[TeamCoconutOreo]

Hi TCO, welcome to the forum!

Yes agreed, there are so many more aspects to consider, other than tail pipe emissions. Transporting the vehicle to a dealer... making a car that is smaller and has less parts takes less energy to make... and as Z said, is the battery in an EV recyclable?

One aspect I've thought of, would love to get everyone's take: the production of the extra electricity to charge the EV. Depending on use, the EV might get plugged in to charge, once a week or 5 times a week. Unless you live close to a nuclear plant or a hydroelectric plant or a bank of wind turbines, won't the electricity be generated, by putting pollutants into the air from coal or natural gas engines at a power plant?

If someone says that Elio is "part of the problem" due to its ICE, they are stating an opinion that is easy to counter. Will most folks that are buying Elios, be looking at buying an EV if the Elio is not available? These days, as high cost as EV's are, no way. Maybe 5-10% of folks reserving an Elio would buy an EV if Elio magically went away.

Elio's ICE will be the most efficient engine on unleaded gas in the U.S. How is that part of the problem? We should all be buying less efficient engines instead?

I'm with you TCO, I don't see how an Elio can be anything but part of a solution, to too much CO being put into the air.

(steps down off soap box) Thank you, thank you everyone. I'll be here all week, be sure and tip your server!

I found this article on lithiumhttps://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.foe...MQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNEAuaqmpP-tMaxLI66V8BTUnpeC-Q

It's worse than I thought. Mining lithium isn't just bad for the air, but it poisons the water supplies of were it's mined!

I agree that the electricity used to charge these cars should also be taken into account.

This is why I would love to see an actual comparison of EM's Total Environmental Impact VS. any and every other green car using a 10 to 20 year operating life that includes 15,000 or so miles per year. Everything from mining the lithium to collecting the rubber and the car's regular maintanence.

I believe that is the only real responsible and accurate way to measure and compare how "Green Cars" impact the environment. I guest that's to much to ask for from the so called article writing experts.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Lithium batteries are almost completely recyclable.

 

[TeamCoconutOreo]

Lithium batteries are almost completely recyclable.

That is great to know! Do you know what the enviormental impact is of recycling lithium ion batteries is?

Assumuming an increase in the Use of lithium ion batteries, how much of that demand can be covered by the use of the recycled batteries?

I'm glad you brought this point up. While it raises new questions, information like this would definitely add to the accuracy of a future discussion or study.

The reason I started this thread is because I read three articles and associated comments that addressed that EM was a step back due to it's ICE, but I couldn't find anyone who has comparaid the vehicles from birth to death (entire life cycle including manufacturing).

I have been involved in the process of enviormental impact surveys for military communication towers. Those surveys take everything into account. From the foot prints of the workers to the emulsions from the diesel baçkup generator.

I think that when "Experts" discuss green cars they only discuss the tailpipe pollution, but rarely diffuse the entire picture.

That my friend is what I would like to learn, the whole picture and not just parts.

Maybe EM wins the compariso, maybe EM looses, but a real comparison is what we need of all "Green Cars."

 

[Smitty901]

A small efficient engine will be much more efficient than a local power plant. As for so called Hybrids they never include all the cost with it they are not the answer. Provided the ELIO engine holds up for a reasonable life cycle it will prove to be much more efficient in the long run than any of the phony electrics or hybrids. It may not be a mid size SUV or a F150 truck but it will move you around very well.
The engine in my 2014 Focus gets good mileage 31.2 to 38 Mpg depending on weather and how we drive it. But then engine is a compromise .
The car is still way over powered for just transportation. The darn thing will get you a speeding ticket anywhere any time. It will flat move out 0-70 and keep flying. If you gave up some of the power it could get even better mileage in a fair sized car.
The ELIO will use just enough engine to get you going just enough to move you a little faster than you should be going it will do it while return a very good fuel mileage. No hybrids for me. They only offer an illusion of free power.

 

[Rickb]

I don't think free power is the logic behind the growing EV market. The idea is providing alternative energy options, reducing our dependency on oil, with the 0 emissions environmental impact bonus. Also, minimal routine maintenance servicing and or repair costs other than brakes and tires. High battery cost and range anxiety prevents most drivers from taking the plunge to electric........the 2017 Tesla Gen 3 may be a game changer to the EV market as the Elio will be the game changer to the ICE market. Both having total environmental impact.

I predict the Elio 2.0 EV option in 2 + years. Somebody will do an EV conversion on a first run production Elio and I can't wait to see it's quick 0-60 mph time and 450 + MPGe.