I Have Given Up On Elio, Have You?

[BaldGuy]

For $20,000, I'd rather buy a used Ford F-150. F the Planet.

I do agree. 20K on carvana can buy a lot of nice used vehicles plus even some electric options (leaf). Plus, the resources to make the batteries and such isn't as green overall as they would want you to think. And if you live close to a coal powered electric plant (I do), electric isn't coming from a coconut shell.

 

[johnsnownw]

I do agree. 20K on carvana can buy a lot of nice used vehicles plus even some electric options (leaf). Plus, the resources to make the batteries and such isn't as green overall as they would want you to think. And if you live close to a coal powered electric plant (I do), electric isn't coming from a coconut shell.

You can certainly make batteries with varying degrees of carbon intensity. GF1, itself, is eventually supposed to be carbon neutral. We live in MN, where coal makes up an unfortunately large mix of the grid, but that's why we purchase 900kW of wind power every month to offset our charging.

As far as power generation and how it affects the "greenness" of a BEV, UCS has a great map that shows how a BEV fairs in each region of the US:

 

[Texconsin]

"Back in 'the day,'" we'd have tarred, feathered and hanged this guy from a rail and run him out of town. In Mad Max, his hands would have been tied behind his back, a paper mache head would have been put on him and he'd ride backwards out in the desert with a vessel of water hanging in front of the horse to lead them both to their parched ends.

 

[Made in USA]

"Back in 'the day,'" we'd have tarred, feathered and hanged this guy from a rail and run him out of town. In Mad Max, his hands would have been tied behind his back, a paper mache head would have been put on him and he'd ride backwards out in the desert with a vessel of water hanging in front of the horse to lead them both to their parched ends.

I'd prefer to not make any judgments yet. I know what it appears to be, but I am also willing to hear Paul Elio's side of the story first. It may be on his own or determined in a court of law. After all, this is America, where you are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Right? I don't think any of us has enough information to pass judgment. However, we still do have the right to question, or give our opinions. Just try to make your opinions based on facts, and not on emotions.

 

[RSchneider]

I'd prefer to not make any judgments yet. I know what it appears to be, but I am also willing to hear Paul Elio's side of the story first. It may be on his own or determined in a court of law. After all, this is America, where you are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Right? I don't think any of us has enough information to pass judgment. However, we still do have the right to question, or give our opinions. Just try to make your opinions based on facts, and not on emotions.

You make a good point. I suggest people look at other failed crowdfunded projects and the same exact sentiment appears. People think that the company pocketed the money and did nothing. Then they scream, "Someone needs to sue them." What they are really saying is, I bet on the wrong horse and now I'm going to blame the jockey, owner and trainer, thus someone needs to sue them for not winning. What they didn't do was do the proper research ahead of the bet but just bet on that horse because it was pretty and had a neat name.

When a business plan doesn't work out or a the people running it are doing a bad job, it's what I call real life. Not everyone is cut out for every job and sometimes they go into something that is over their head. Elio is a combination of both. Paul is really sealing the deal right now by not communicating with anyone. That's where he's over his head. As for the business plan, it was way too aggressive and idealistic, thus never going to work unless it was adjusted. It was sort of adjusted but not even close to what was needed. If you want to see this played out every day, look into the restaurant business. This happens all of the time.

 

[Michael Casey]

I do agree. 20K on carvana can buy a lot of nice used vehicles plus even some electric options (leaf). Plus, the resources to make the batteries and such isn't as green overall as they would want you to think. And if you live close to a coal powered electric plant (I do), electric isn't coming from a coconut shell.

Until they put solar panels on the outside of electric cars, they are being powered by coal and oil.

 

[johnsnownw]

Until they put solar panels on the outside of electric cars, they are being powered by coal and oil.

This simply isn't true. Just because you can charge a BEV this way, does not mean it is being charged this way. Again, I will point to the map I posted earlier. Coal usage in California is around 3%, and they have 50% of the US BEV fleet.

Saying that EVs are powered by coal and oil is simply incorrect. Even if all of the "Unspecified" generation was fossil fuel, it would still make up a lower percentage than the Renewable or low Carbon generation. Meaning that, more than 51% of CA's power comes from non-FF related sources.

 

[RSchneider]

When I read these debates, I ask people to just think of the iPhone. It came out mid 2007. Bandwidth on cell phones back then was terrible and people needed to have a real keyboard to type a message. Here we are in 2020 and we type on screens and bandwidth is excellent. So the iPhone was a joke for many outside the Apple mindset. How times have changed since then. Come to think about it, the iPhone is only a year older than the Elio.

Yes, EV;s are not the perfect solution. We have coal and oil. Think abut it, it's not going to change overnight. Over time we will ween ourselves off of fossil fuels. That means, we can't just ignore other types of power. If we do, then we never change and becomes stagnant. Nobody want's that. America was built on being new and innovative, not just doing the same thing over and over again. Let's keep that going and embrace EV's. Right now they can be terrible if you you want to look at it that way but on the other hand it could be like the iPhone. Reject it and live with crappy bandwidth and relegated to a flip phone that only does one thing well, make phone calls.

 

[Made in USA]

This simply isn't true. Just because you can charge a BEV this way, does not mean it is being charged this way. Again, I will point to the map I posted earlier. Coal usage in California is around 3%, and they have 50% of the US BEV fleet.

Without the fossil fuels there would be no mining. That means no fuel for nuclear reactors, no raw materials for solar or wind systems, no copper for electrical transmission. It could also be argued that natural gas is from fossil fuels. Meaning virtually all electricity is relying on fossil fuels in one way or another.

 

[johnsnownw]

Natural Gas is a fossil fuel, but it is much cleaner and more efficient to use than coal or petroleum. And as I pointed out, it's a minority of the generation.

FF are a necessary evil for society, but we should be trying to reduce its usage where we can, or use it as efficiently as we can if it must be used. BEVs are one of many ways this can be accomplished.