RSchneider
Elio Addict
it's a new three wheeler that will be coming out soon.
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Full Catalog 3 Wheelers Thread
- Thread starter AriLea
- Start date
More artwork, as if you thought it would stop!
So, where does the door(s) go? I think it should pop out to the side a couple inches then slide back.
This kind of art doesn't usually consider such things. Also you can't be sure if this is solo, tandem,
sociable or grid-four seating.
The top one could be a solo with smart-car sires, a tandem with standard tires or a three or four seat
with 30in tires. And in many cases, the only drive that can fit in here is an EV drive.
Just might fit a solo with a small ICE-Transaxle if the drivers feet are apart, however.
Duh, the bottom one probably is best with sociable-for-two and mid-engine, or 3 seat with an EV drive.
And yea!, there is not enough room exhibited for the tires to do what they need to do. Once that is accommodated, will the overall pattern look anything like that? Will the implied aerodynamics be the same. -not likely-
So, where does the door(s) go? I think it should pop out to the side a couple inches then slide back.
This kind of art doesn't usually consider such things. Also you can't be sure if this is solo, tandem,
sociable or grid-four seating.
The top one could be a solo with smart-car sires, a tandem with standard tires or a three or four seat
with 30in tires. And in many cases, the only drive that can fit in here is an EV drive.
Just might fit a solo with a small ICE-Transaxle if the drivers feet are apart, however.
Duh, the bottom one probably is best with sociable-for-two and mid-engine, or 3 seat with an EV drive.
And yea!, there is not enough room exhibited for the tires to do what they need to do. Once that is accommodated, will the overall pattern look anything like that? Will the implied aerodynamics be the same. -not likely-
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Re-reading old posts lately, I didn't realize how much interest in this forum there is in the Subaru Boxer. Although it's just as easy that I had talked about it here at other times, but just took it for banter. At the moment I'm interested too. You may have seen what I posted in the Bex thread.
When I get the 3d graphic done, I will make sure anyone can get access to a copy of it.
What I'm looking for in the study, is at least one layout that would work for that drive drain. And to see what it would look like. (what I always do, my OCD behavior :-) ) That is, an autocycle-FWD- 3 wheeler, where all things fit, and appear to be useable, and can be assembled and serviced. -- and would be presentable on the street.
It always makes me a little irate to see car-art-designs that have no intension of ever being real. Just cheap eye-candy. You know how some women hate magazine covers because no-one can compete with an air brush? Similar situation here.
If I stay interested after that, I may upgrade it to all to a composite layout. Maybe re-think the entry. Maybe make it a full tandem. It is just Solo for now. I'm talking powerful street warrior I guess. There are limits to how much power is safe in a FWD-Tadpole. If materialized into a real craft, this would maybe test that.
If you have any dreams about style or outfitting for what you would wish in such a craft, I will consider working that in.
For example I used the 350GT as the style inspiration. I could have used anything.
When I get the 3d graphic done, I will make sure anyone can get access to a copy of it.
What I'm looking for in the study, is at least one layout that would work for that drive drain. And to see what it would look like. (what I always do, my OCD behavior :-) ) That is, an autocycle-FWD- 3 wheeler, where all things fit, and appear to be useable, and can be assembled and serviced. -- and would be presentable on the street.
It always makes me a little irate to see car-art-designs that have no intension of ever being real. Just cheap eye-candy. You know how some women hate magazine covers because no-one can compete with an air brush? Similar situation here.
If I stay interested after that, I may upgrade it to all to a composite layout. Maybe re-think the entry. Maybe make it a full tandem. It is just Solo for now. I'm talking powerful street warrior I guess. There are limits to how much power is safe in a FWD-Tadpole. If materialized into a real craft, this would maybe test that.
If you have any dreams about style or outfitting for what you would wish in such a craft, I will consider working that in.
For example I used the 350GT as the style inspiration. I could have used anything.
What’s the point of interest in a ‘wide tracked’ enclosed three wheeler that has the ride and cost of a car? My interest in three wheelers began 15 years ago when I happened across the Carver, a fully enclosed, ‘narrow’ , ‘tilting’ three wheeler motorcycle that appeared to be fun to ride, although not affordable and/or available in the USA. The typical enclosed three wheeler ‘autocycle’ similar the Elio concept platform, likely drives and handles similar (perhaps not as good) to a typical sub-compact or compact car with little to no fun factor beyond the cockpit feel of a narrow cabin. My primary interest in Elio was the way under $7500/five star safety rating, that lost the safety rating and more likely closer to $15K+ had it crossed the production finish line. Many reservationists would have lost interest at that higher price point. Same with the FUV’s $11, 900 target, turned to $19,900 (many lost interest) after crossing the production finish line, lowered to $11,900 by production scale in a couple years. The more affordable under $25K Tesla will likely be available in a year or 2 and renders appear stylish, and it will be quick off the line, comfortable, long range, AWD, and seats 4.
Note: I did find the open air Arcimoto FUV a blast to ride, only because it felt more like riding a reasonably safe motorcycle than driving an enclosed autocycle. When it’s enclosed and equipped with the Tilting Motorworks Trio tilting option I will have come full circle in my pursuit of a narrow, fun to ride, enclosed, tilting, three wheeler and will buy one if someone hasn’t confiscated my driver’s license.
Note: I did find the open air Arcimoto FUV a blast to ride, only because it felt more like riding a reasonably safe motorcycle than driving an enclosed autocycle. When it’s enclosed and equipped with the Tilting Motorworks Trio tilting option I will have come full circle in my pursuit of a narrow, fun to ride, enclosed, tilting, three wheeler and will buy one if someone hasn’t confiscated my driver’s license.
What’s the point of interest in a ‘wide tracked’ enclosed three wheeler that has the ride and cost of a car?
Well, you know, the point is always in the eye of the beholder.
The Boxer exercise does not have much point (for me). I admit that. But the handling and feel will not be like a normal car.
(just similar dynamics to a front wheel drive car, this is different than feel)
The acceleration should be super. But then a street legal Formula Vee would be too. Cost about the same for a one-off as a guess.
For the boxer or any wide-tracked tadpole(with FWD), First of all, you sit exactly in the CG (or just behind). In a formula 1 or other solo mid engine, you sit just in front. This makes a huge difference in the feel, especially compared to a common sedan. And this is different than sitting above the CG in something that tilts. (apples and oranges comparison for the feel) Hence we say ride, rather than drive.
I built a mid-engine Chev-ota (V8 chev in a toyota) in the mid 1970's. I was forward, above and left of CG, just a little. Totally different feel than when it was a stock 1600cc. And much better as a Chevota, NEXT we can talk about power.
For me, I see no point in tilting a trike. It's cheaper and feels better to ride a motorcycle. Then there is the open air issue. Some like it, some don't care. Personally, I hate getting hit by bugs, and hit in the head by rocks, or getting wet. Happens a lot around here. And probably the tilter is no more safe in bad weather than a bike. So IF I was forced to do both a cabin and tilting, I might also consider a Mono-Tracer. Although, I prefer a human foot above an automated kick-stand. And a static third wheel above a transient stopping system of some kind. So maybe I would be more of a Pulse-LiteStar guy, but I wouldn't like floating back and forth to the side at stopping time.
So I'm totally OK with us having a different idea of what the point is.
Keep in mind, the Pop-Mechanics (sorry, it was R&T) magazine long-long-ago, about the Tri-Hawk, a very wide tracked, FWD, tadpole trike; They put it up against a number of mid-engine super sports cars. The Hawk won the handling and feel category (plus cost and economy) categories all-hands-down. (none of that considered foul weather driving, tilters don't usually consider that either).
What the hawk absolutely couldn't do was a controlled power turn. Those particular 'beholder's didn't care about that one.
So by way of comparison, the Boxer-Trike would likely be better then the Tri-Hawk because of siting solo, and having more useable power and maybe a lower CG. So if being better than a super-sports car for driving feel and handling doesn't have a point.....
So, I don't see your point fitting in with mine. But that's OK, yours is still valid, for anyone in that lane.
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Yes, I feel it, the vaporware conundrum. The main reason I have built or designed anything, is that I couldn't find it anywhere else.
I'd actually be more happy if 'my lane' showed up elsewhere, or I suddenly had the space-time-money to complete my own.
Instead both paths are not yet fruitful. (in the autocycle realm)
On the other hand, after trying, I discovered that I love to make things. And there remains the possibility one of those two paths will deliver. I still have my mock-up, designs and dreams, and people like 'Mark Bex' pop-out once in a while.
Frankly, it's our video-game-of-life isn't it? A goal energizes us, we try, we do-or-fail, but we played the game. With the right mind set we enjoyed the play. So, HEY, life is good. Those are my roses.
I'd actually be more happy if 'my lane' showed up elsewhere, or I suddenly had the space-time-money to complete my own.
Instead both paths are not yet fruitful. (in the autocycle realm)
On the other hand, after trying, I discovered that I love to make things. And there remains the possibility one of those two paths will deliver. I still have my mock-up, designs and dreams, and people like 'Mark Bex' pop-out once in a while.
Frankly, it's our video-game-of-life isn't it? A goal energizes us, we try, we do-or-fail, but we played the game. With the right mind set we enjoyed the play. So, HEY, life is good. Those are my roses.
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So I completed my Boxer exercise. I'm not sure this can be commonly understood, but the exercise is to visually assess if this combination of engine and seating will fit inside the envelope of a full body cabin in a 2F1R format, and will the design make sense? Will it be interesting from the aesthetics and the operational attributes point of view? And of course will it work safely?
Entry is always a big challenge in the 2F1R format where a full body and fenders exists. I chose the 350GT styling in this exercise, and I found that unless the steering wheel swings wildly up out of the way, the driver would be trapped, or a least hindered from getting in or out. So I opted for a controversial sliding steering with variating, non-linear ratios. Being very fine steering at center and more coarse when off center.
I have already built and used such a system in a previous car. It did seem to work well, but did not have the variable ratios. (not deeply tested however)
If anyone wants a copy of this 3d graphic file in Sketchup v18, let me know as a private message and I will email it. I can't seem to upload it here or to the 3d warehouse without buying their stupid subscription version, so I will be looking for a new repository to share it on.
Update: I found an upload path, simply by logging into the site directly, rather than from with-in Sketchup. The title is:
Case Study 83 - Subaru - 350GTV Lambo Autocycle
So the conclusion I found is, yes it all can fit and operate. But, entry will be awkward, and that there is no substantial Physics reason to create this drive train in a 2F1R layout. Compared to a 4 wheel version, which Subaru currently provides, the aerodynamics are only marginally better, and the weight savings are not that impressive. At a sporting level of power this vehicle will not save much in fuel costs, and in exchange the handling and drivability at the sport level in a 3 wheeler will suffer. This engine/drive would make a lot more sense in a custom, light weight, mid-engine setup, with sociable seating.
Added: Could also use this FWD setup in a tandem seater with 4 wheels, and only pay a 15% increase in weight, and nearly the same aerodynamic costs compared to the 2F1R layout shown here. This would recover the handling into a typical FWD-4 behavior.
If however you just want to drive something interesting and unique. And do so from the diamond lane, all while keeping pace with the jet set, this will do the trick, if you don't mind driving by yourself.
This should not have been surprising. I like the 2F1R layout primarily because the vehicle type can be made to substantially reduce the vehicle cost, lower the aerodynamic drag for both the total size and efficiency of the form, and the weight saving from dropping the one wheel can be up to 30% in a two seater. But as a tandem 1.5 or solo all the above gets even better, and so the engine can be a lot smaller as well.
This is all counter to the purpose of a sporting drive train. I do also think the drive train could fit into the dimensions that my Atlantric provides. But again, what's the point of that?
Entry is always a big challenge in the 2F1R format where a full body and fenders exists. I chose the 350GT styling in this exercise, and I found that unless the steering wheel swings wildly up out of the way, the driver would be trapped, or a least hindered from getting in or out. So I opted for a controversial sliding steering with variating, non-linear ratios. Being very fine steering at center and more coarse when off center.
I have already built and used such a system in a previous car. It did seem to work well, but did not have the variable ratios. (not deeply tested however)
If anyone wants a copy of this 3d graphic file in Sketchup v18, let me know as a private message and I will email it. I can't seem to upload it here or to the 3d warehouse without buying their stupid subscription version, so I will be looking for a new repository to share it on.
Update: I found an upload path, simply by logging into the site directly, rather than from with-in Sketchup. The title is:
Case Study 83 - Subaru - 350GTV Lambo Autocycle
So the conclusion I found is, yes it all can fit and operate. But, entry will be awkward, and that there is no substantial Physics reason to create this drive train in a 2F1R layout. Compared to a 4 wheel version, which Subaru currently provides, the aerodynamics are only marginally better, and the weight savings are not that impressive. At a sporting level of power this vehicle will not save much in fuel costs, and in exchange the handling and drivability at the sport level in a 3 wheeler will suffer. This engine/drive would make a lot more sense in a custom, light weight, mid-engine setup, with sociable seating.
Added: Could also use this FWD setup in a tandem seater with 4 wheels, and only pay a 15% increase in weight, and nearly the same aerodynamic costs compared to the 2F1R layout shown here. This would recover the handling into a typical FWD-4 behavior.
If however you just want to drive something interesting and unique. And do so from the diamond lane, all while keeping pace with the jet set, this will do the trick, if you don't mind driving by yourself.
This should not have been surprising. I like the 2F1R layout primarily because the vehicle type can be made to substantially reduce the vehicle cost, lower the aerodynamic drag for both the total size and efficiency of the form, and the weight saving from dropping the one wheel can be up to 30% in a two seater. But as a tandem 1.5 or solo all the above gets even better, and so the engine can be a lot smaller as well.
This is all counter to the purpose of a sporting drive train. I do also think the drive train could fit into the dimensions that my Atlantric provides. But again, what's the point of that?
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Made in USA
Elio Addict
https://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentr...-Hiding-After-Decades?frmtrk=cr4digest&cid=nl
Dale Clifft's Original Three-Wheeler Prototype Emerges from Hiding After Decades
Posted May 24, 2021 7:23 AM by dstrohl
Pathfinder Tags: CB77 honda motorcycles
Add your own Tags!
While the saga of Dale and Liz Carmichael has received renewed attention in recent months thanks to the HBO documentary miniseries The Lady and The Dale, until recently nobody knew where Dale Clifft's original three-wheeler that started the whole episode had resided, or even if it still existed. Nobody, that is, other than Marie and Ronny Coleman and their friend and restorer Bruce Cunha. Also Marie
Cole's mother, who threatened to send the vehicle to the dump at one point.
Now, more than 40 years later, the hand-built, Honda-based, Naugahyde-covered reverse trike that Clifft called the Commutercycle will emerge from hiding for its first public display ever.
Clifft never intended his Commutercycle as anything more than a tinkerer's project and certainly didn't intend for it to get wrapped up in the headline-making fraud trial of a woman who once claimed she'd "knock the hell out of Detroit" and "rule the auto industry like a queen." The avid motorcyclist and inventor merely wanted to build an inexpensive motorcycle-based all-weather vehicle for cruising around the Los Angeles area.
Starting with a 1963 Honda CB77 Super Hawk, Clifft removed the front fork, seat, and rear fender and then welded to its frame a birdcage structure made partially out of 1/2-inch electrical conduit. Cunha noted that the windshield came from some German vehicle, perhaps a Volkswagen, and that Clifft built the cabin structure around the shape of the windshield. Clifft even fabricated a reverse mechanism that used a small electric motor that engaged the rear wheel.
Dale Clifft's Original Three-Wheeler Prototype Emerges from Hiding After Decades
Posted May 24, 2021 7:23 AM by dstrohl
Pathfinder Tags: CB77 honda motorcycles
Add your own Tags!
While the saga of Dale and Liz Carmichael has received renewed attention in recent months thanks to the HBO documentary miniseries The Lady and The Dale, until recently nobody knew where Dale Clifft's original three-wheeler that started the whole episode had resided, or even if it still existed. Nobody, that is, other than Marie and Ronny Coleman and their friend and restorer Bruce Cunha. Also Marie
Now, more than 40 years later, the hand-built, Honda-based, Naugahyde-covered reverse trike that Clifft called the Commutercycle will emerge from hiding for its first public display ever.
Clifft never intended his Commutercycle as anything more than a tinkerer's project and certainly didn't intend for it to get wrapped up in the headline-making fraud trial of a woman who once claimed she'd "knock the hell out of Detroit" and "rule the auto industry like a queen." The avid motorcyclist and inventor merely wanted to build an inexpensive motorcycle-based all-weather vehicle for cruising around the Los Angeles area.
Starting with a 1963 Honda CB77 Super Hawk, Clifft removed the front fork, seat, and rear fender and then welded to its frame a birdcage structure made partially out of 1/2-inch electrical conduit. Cunha noted that the windshield came from some German vehicle, perhaps a Volkswagen, and that Clifft built the cabin structure around the shape of the windshield. Clifft even fabricated a reverse mechanism that used a small electric motor that engaged the rear wheel.