Financing Elio Motors Development And Production

[TexasElio]

You really should have run a good search on this site as you are not trying to tell us anything we have not discussed and debunked many times now. You should also read the actual detailed applicant guidance and not just the overview. One item to take note of is the fact that some of the ATVM requirements do not apply to the 'Ultra Efficient Vehicle' part of the program and only to the 'qualify components' part.

That can be found here:

http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/...r-Applicants-Final-Version-October-5-2012.pdf


This is the key part of that document pertaining to this discussion:


The fact is that EM intends to use the loan for establishing the plant for production which is perfectly allowable under the terms of the terms of the loan guidelines.

It has also been explained that simulations for both the fuel efficiency and for financials are allowed and encouraged as evidence that there is a reasonable expectation of reaching the fuel efficiency goal and EM paying back the loan which is the standard they must meet.

Many of the loans are indeed awarded for technology which is still under development so simulations are what is being used for the expected fuel efficiency gains. EM is no different in using these simulations as evidence for the loan.

In their application EM used all the plant equipment as both a source of a capital and as their collateral. By selling off the unseeded equipment EM will raise the working capital and this equipment is expected to fetch about $100-$120 million. The equipment that is left for vehicle production, of similar value, provides for the collateral.

The guidelines do not say EM must have a net positive right now but instead 'the applicant has a net present value that is
positive, taking all costs, existing and future, into account." This of course goes back to the financial projections which must 'reasonably' show that EM can pay back the loan.

Some very interesting conjecture about the application that Elio Motors submitted...

But moving back to some sense of reality...

Elio Motors...formed in 2008...and still no specification ready prototypes completed...

They've spent 60 million on producing three crude styling mockups...and a newly designed prototype engine...

I have no doubt the Feds can't wait to write a 175 million dollar check to a small marketing company with a several dozen employees ...a company that claims to be revolutionizing the automobile industry...for the last 7 years...but has no proof to back up all the promises...

I'm sure the staff reviewing Elio Motors application chuckled the whole time!

 

[Horn]

Texas Elio - where does it say they spent 60M?

And in all reality, the govt/politicians have given lots of money to bad ideas/businesses/operations....

 

[goofyone]

Thats out there!?

It is out there somewhere however EM certainly has no intention of releasing such detailed information publicly for a variety of reasons many of which are perfectly understandable as I wouldn't want my personal financial information made public let alone my business plan and complete financial information for my business.

I know that someone on another Elio site tried a freedom of information act request however was told as it is an active proceeding it would not be available until after the decision was made and would likely be redacted to remove any information considered to be 'trade secrets' or 'confidential' which is likely most of the report.

 

[AriLea]

So...obliviously they know they're a poor candidate for a ATVM loan...but Mr Elio seems to have trouble with being truthful & transparent to the public .

That's just an obtuse and unsupported conclusion, not even justified by your own evidence. The willingness to state such things are indicative of an agenda.

..just another falsehood he perpetuates to his deposit holders...

Anything you figure you can color in a bad light, seem to justify that they know you are right and therefore are liars.
Also not a justified conclusion. You look like you are just hunting for ways to make accusatory accusations.
You would never qualify for jury selection.

Personally I have an agenda, I admit it. I feel the Elio would be helpful to us all.
But I'm not willing to toss my honor down a hole following an idealogue agenda, mostly making excuses to toss dirt anywhere there is a clear spot left.

 

[TexasElio]

bottom line, none of us know the details .... what we do know is according to reports, EM was asked to apply .... in addition, with this loan politics will be involved .... EM has attorneys who have been a presumably still are working on it ... I find it hard to believe they would waste time and money trying for a loan for which they don't qualify ....

Currently...I think Mr Elio knows this loan is not within reach...just another piece of the puzzle he's hiding from the public...

As an example...I have no doubt Mr Elio knew months ago there was no possibility to initiate production in late 2015...but he continued to take deposit predicated on this false information...the city council meeting forced him to be truthful...otherwise he would have continued to be deceptive...

 

[AriLea]

Currently...I think Mr Elio knows this loan is not within reach...just another piece of the puzzle he's hiding from the public...

Valid as conjecture, not valid as proof. It's also valid conjecture to say he's hopeful, having kept activity seeking it.

As an example...I have no doubt Mr Elio knew months ago there was no possibility to initiate production in late 2015...but he continued to take deposit predicated on this false information.

Also unproven conjecture based on a suspicious predisposition.

..the city council meeting forced him to be truthful...otherwise he would have continued to be deceptive...

I think that's extrapolated opinion, but I'd like a second opinion before I tried to make that stick.

 

[AriLea]

OK, you are on notice. You know who you are. If I feel you are obtuse, unfair or unjustified I'm going to parse your little episode like I did above. Well, with less predisposition. But it will be like pulling legs off a centipede for you I guarantee.
I am pretty good at the Vulcan tactics of martial logic. After that, everyone else will know who we both are.
So make your arguments balanced, logical, reasoned and justified or look forward to going to the forum-posters ER later.

Opinion maters, honesty maters more.

 

[John Painter]

Aptera applied and worked like crazy for an ATVM loan for which they didn't qualify.

Not quite, Aperta didn't qualify for ATVM because at the original time of application their vehicle was three wheeled and because of that was excluded. The ATVM program was modified to allow three wheeled vehicles.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Not quite, Aperta didn't qualify for ATVM because at the original time of application their vehicle was three wheeled and because of that was excluded. The ATVM program was modified to allow three wheeled vehicles.

You are correct! That to me is a company applying for a loan for which they are not qualified.

If you mean financially qualified, that happened later too. A couple of years later, ATVM told them they'd give them the loan guarantee IF they could raise funds themselves, IIRC, $80 million.

I suppose there's lots of reasons why a company would get turned down, we're probably saying the same thing.

 

[jetpack54]

Currently...I think Mr Elio knows this loan is within reach...just another reason to be positive for future hopeful owners like us...

As an example...I have no doubt Mr Elio firmly believes the possibility is there to start production in late 2015...so he continued to take
deposits predicated on the information he have...the city council meeting encourage him in his resolve within reasonable limits....but when he didn't get
an early approval from the ATVM loan due to past delays discussed in length here...he didn't have no choice but to announce a new projected 2016 production start.