Elio Turbo

[Dustman]

When I discovered the Elio and made my reservation, I did so with the idea that a low cost 84mpg commuter was a perfect solution and I had no interest in talk about turbos or other horsepower upgrades. However, I now can't get the thought out of my head about how much fun a "performance" Elio could be. Combined with a beefed up suspension, a higher HP Elio has the potential to be an absolute blast to drive.

I am putting money aside each month so that I should be able to pay in full for my Elio when it becomes available. I think at that point, I will start putting aside a large portion of the monthly gas savings I will have by driving my Elio over 2000 miles a month towards a "sport/turbo" Elio about 3 years thereafter. Woooohooooo!

 

[goofyone]

There is something in writing, it is called "The Magnason-Moss Warranty act. Here is a link and a paragraph that helps to explain it:

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance



Will using 'aftermarket' or recycled parts void my warranty?
No. An 'aftermarket' part is a part made by a company other than the vehicle manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer. A 'recycled' part is a part that was made for and installed in a new vehicle by the manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer, and later removed from the vehicle and made available for resale or reuse. Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.

I hope this helps.

that is correct but it is my understanding that applies to replacement parts and has nothing to do with installing items or modifications which aren't in keeping with the integrity of the factory build .... buying and installing a replacement part is a very different matter than adding components that weren't factory installed

Jim

I understand what your saying, but it does cover "aftermarket" parts...including performance equipment. If you notice the last sentence tho, the "burden of proof" is on the manufacturer to prove the damage was caused by the "aftermarket parts." If such damage is proven to be caused by these parts, the warranty is then "void" and repairs are at the expense of the owner.
IIRC, the "Magnuson" part of the act, was in reference to Magnuson superchargers.

This can be researched online however there is a bit of a difference between what the law says and what courts have decided on these cases. You are always protected by law when you replace items with equivalent parts and/or demonstratively better parts as long as the parts have been installed correctly and not in a way which would cause damage. This is why items such as higher flow intakes and higher flow exhausts do not in of themselves violate your warranty.
However once you move into parts which change the manufacturers intended mode of operation, such as ECU tuning, turbos and superchargers, you enter the legal grey area where technically the burden of proof may be on the manufacturer however they have already established legal precedents where they have shown that these changes cause engine operation outside of normal tolerances. As such as the vehicle owner you may end up fighting an uphill legal battle as with those precedents the burden shifts to you to prove those should not be applicable to your case.
By the way operating a vehicle outside what is considered 'normal' has been successfully used by manufacturers against owners who tow using vehicles where towing is stated as not being allowed and also against owners who race their vehicles in various racing events. Anything you do to a vehicle in violation of what is considered 'normal' operation or which violates specific instructions in the operators manual, such as no towing, is very likely to be upheld as a warranty violation unless you can prove whatever the problem is would have happened anyway or that manufacturer should have known that this type of operation would be normal.

 

[JEBar]

However once you move into parts which change the manufacturers intended mode of operation, such as ECU tuning, turbos and superchargers, you enter the legal grey area where technically the burden of proof may be on the manufacturer however they have already established legal precedents where they have shown that these changes cause engine operation outside of normal tolerances. As such as the vehicle owner you may end up fighting an uphill legal battle as with those precedents the burden shifts to you to prove those should not be applicable to your case.
By the way operating a vehicle outside what is considered 'normal' has been successfully used by manufacturers against owners who tow using vehicles where towing is stated as not being allowed and also against owners who race their vehicles in various racing events. Anything you do to a vehicle in violation of what is considered 'normal' operation or which violates specific instructions in the operators manual, such as no towing, is very likely to be upheld as a warranty violation unless you can prove whatever the problem is would have happened anyway or that manufacturer should have known that this type of operation would be normal.

exactly correct

Jim

 

[outsydthebox]

Thank you for expounding on what I said.

 

[grampi]

If the Elio's engine had 4 valves per cylinder, forged crank and rods, etc, and was built to take the stresses a Turbo puts on a motor, I'd say a turbo would be a nice option...as it is, I think I'd just keep the engine stock and normally aspirated or you could be looking at seriously shortening its life expectancy....

 

[Snick]

If the Elio's engine had 4 valves per cylinder, forged crank and rods, etc, and was built to take the stresses a Turbo puts on a motor, I'd say a turbo would be a nice option...as it is, I think I'd just keep the engine stock and normally aspirated or you could be looking at seriously shortening its life expectancy....

And some turbo engines (especially if high compression) also require piston oil squirters to cool the undersides of the pistons. I don't know if they'd be required for this engine, though.

 

[DanS]

This would be a nice addition to the Elio
http://wardsauto.com/suppliers/valeo-launching-two-electric-superchargers

 

[Smitty901]

Turbo and super chargers are hard on and engine . If it was not built for it from the ground up it will not end well.

 

[goofyone]

Turbo and super chargers are hard on and engine . If it was not built for it from the ground up it will not end well.

This is the biggest issue I see with adding forced induction to this engine as well. From what we know the block is the only part of this engine engineered with a turbo in mind. The internals of this engine have been selected for the purpose of meeting the ultra high mileage at an ultra low cost goal so I would not trust them to handle the excess stresses of a turbo over an extended period of time.

Elio Motors has openly discussed the possibility of a turbo version of this engine in the future and it is very likely that this engine will eventually receive upgraded internals, and possibly even an upgraded cylinder head, all designed to maximize the performance of this setup while also handling the increased stresses over an extended vehicle lifetime. My guess however is that this is a year three option at the earliest as this will take some time to develop and test.

In the shorter term there will be an easier option for more power available as Elio Motors has confirmed several times that they plan to offer a higher performance ECU tune which owners should be able to perform themselves. This will not likely be available on day one as Elio Motors needs to ensure the base ECU tune is tested thoroughly before working on an additional setup however it is likely this will become available within the first year or so. This is possible because EM has told us repeatedly that as designed this engine is actually capable of more power out of the box however by default it is optimized to deliver maximum fuel efficiency.

 

[Smitty901]

Different tunes/Maps are common on motorcycles. Using a Power vision tuner I can change my entire MAP in 30 seconds or so. It is not just a madder of adding a little fuel or minor timing change. I have 6 tunes stored each has a different goals in mind. The one I use most of the time compensates for the freer flowing exhaust and the high flow Air cleaner. It also changes the average air to fuel from 14.7 to 1 to about 14.3 to one. And in high throttle demand 13.0 to 1. Over 4000 RPMs all bets are off 12.0 to one. I keep it in a closed loop. The closed loop way of tuning allows any engine to be tuned for normal driving/riding and deliver good performance, fuel economy and reduced emissions with in normal range. But once you go passed the closed loop it allows for performance. Problem with tuners that rewrite the MAP they all violate the warranty if engine damage is caused. Also the farther you get from the stock map the harder it is to have a good all a round tune.
I have known a few over the years that bolted turbos or blowers on Stock or modified HD engines, They ran like a lighting bolt until they grenade.
And engine with Mods of that type need serious crank and rod mods to hold together also often require extra head bolts.
If I want to go fast I'll take one of the Harleys The ELIO will be left as is and be a low cost form of transportation . I am sure there will be those that find ways to jack them up, they always do.