Elio Turbo

[TKVancil]

I have no idea why some here think a turbo has little effect. Of course, one can set the turbo
up with a variety of boost levels in mind, but boost is where it's at if you want power. Forget stupid
high flow airfilters, louder mufflers, etc A turbo typically is set up for a 30% to 40% HP gain.
Assume the Elio engine at healthy tune is making 65 HP (which the engineers can do with a few
adjustments to timing, etc) Now apply a 35% more power boost level. The car is now producing
87 HP. Now go find a test review of the "new" three-wheeled Morgan, which just happens to weigh
exactly the same as the Elio (1200 pounds) ,and sports an 82HP 4 cylinder, normally aspirated engine.
That car runs zero to sixty in 5.8 seconds, leading to the inescapable conclusion that the Elio will do
just as well, probably better. At a still-reasonable 40% more power turbo boost level, we're looking at
91 HP, folks, probably closing in on a 5 second flat 0-60 run, making the Elio turbo faster than most
everything out there on the road. A true pocket rocket.
I don't know about you, but I'm waiting for the turbo. Period. End of story.

Just get one now with all us, and swap out the engine latter
You need to have a good frame of reference my friend anyhow

 

[goldwing06]

I have no idea why some here think a turbo has little effect. Of course, one can set the turbo
up with a variety of boost levels in mind, but boost is where it's at if you want power. Forget stupid
high flow airfilters, louder mufflers, etc A turbo typically is set up for a 30% to 40% HP gain.
Assume the Elio engine at healthy tune is making 65 HP (which the engineers can do with a few
adjustments to timing, etc) Now apply a 35% more power boost level. The car is now producing
87 HP. Now go find a test review of the "new" three-wheeled Morgan, which just happens to weigh
exactly the same as the Elio (1200 pounds) ,and sports an 82HP 4 cylinder, normally aspirated engine.
That car runs zero to sixty in 5.8 seconds, leading to the inescapable conclusion that the Elio will do
just as well, probably better. At a still-reasonable 40% more power turbo boost level, we're looking at
91 HP, folks, probably closing in on a 5 second flat 0-60 run, making the Elio turbo faster than most
everything out there on the road. A true pocket rocket.
I don't know about you, but I'm waiting for the turbo. Period. End of story.

reading your statement made me wonder about the performance comparison of the morgan to the elio. the morgan isn't geared to get 84mpg. changing the gear ratio on the elio would get u better acceleration numbers but at a loss of milage number. i would think the addition of the turbo would be to maintain sea level performance at all elevations and not boost sea level performance. a small engine has a more noticiable power loss at altitude than larger ci engines do.

 

[JEBar]

I don't know about you, but I'm waiting for the turbo. Period. End of story.

much depends on the reason a person is buying an Elio .... for folks who have no need for acceleration that will push them back in their seat, a turbo may well serve little purpose .... we have had large turbo chargers on our former Chevy one ton and current Sportchassis .... those trucks are used for towing heavy loads and their turbo chargers make it a huge difference .... I know some folks who own Ford ECO boost trucks that love the truck but hate what happens to their mileage when they kick it in .... for our use a turbo not only wouldn't be a positive, if it lowers fuel mileage, it could be a negative .... I really look forward to reading post from people who want to fire'um up and take off in a blur .... guess I'm getting older in a hurry

Jim

 

[goofyone]

I have no idea why some here think a turbo has little effect. Of course, one can set the turbo
up with a variety of boost levels in mind, but boost is where it's at if you want power. Forget stupid
high flow airfilters, louder mufflers, etc A turbo typically is set up for a 30% to 40% HP gain.
Assume the Elio engine at healthy tune is making 65 HP (which the engineers can do with a few
adjustments to timing, etc) Now apply a 35% more power boost level. The car is now producing
87 HP. Now go find a test review of the "new" three-wheeled Morgan, which just happens to weigh
exactly the same as the Elio (1200 pounds) ,and sports an 82HP 4 cylinder, normally aspirated engine.
That car runs zero to sixty in 5.8 seconds, leading to the inescapable conclusion that the Elio will do
just as well, probably better. At a still-reasonable 40% more power turbo boost level, we're looking at
91 HP, folks, probably closing in on a 5 second flat 0-60 run, making the Elio turbo faster than most
everything out there on the road. A true pocket rocket.
I don't know about you, but I'm waiting for the turbo. Period. End of story.

I actually expect more than that from an Elio turbo when everything is all said and done.

Elio Motors has already told us this engine is being detuned and with ECU programming alone 65 HP is easily doable. In the Town Hall meeting Paul Elio even stated he wanted to make available, at an extra fee of course, a smartphone app which can change your ECU tuning if you wish to have more power instead of higher fuel efficiency.

Before a turbo I actually expect a more powerful naturally aspirated version of this engine will emerge. This would be less expensive to produce as it would mostly involve upgrading engine internals and a revised head likely with dual cams and VVT. We already know from Elio Motors and IAV comments that upgraded internals would be necessary anyway for a turbo so it would make sense to go ahead and offer an upgraded engine at an intermediate price without the turbo, I would easily expect this naturally aspirated engine to be 85+ HP and this would turn the Elio into quite the fun ride. EM would have no trouble selling this option as a $2500+ special order option.

Now when Elio motors decides to slap even a fairly low powered turbo onto the upgraded engine they could easily end up with a 110+HP beast of a machine. EM could easily ask for $5000+ for this option, require premium fuel, and it would still sell very well for them.

 

[JEBar]

Before a turbo I actually expect a more powerful naturally aspirated version of this engine will emerge.....I would easily expect this naturally aspirated engine to be 85+ HP and this would turn the Elio into quite the fun ride. EM would have no trouble selling this option as a $2500+ special order option.

Now when Elio motors decides to slap even a fairly low powered turbo onto the upgraded engine they could easily end up with a 110+HP beast of a machine. EM could easily ask for $5000+ for this option, require premium fuel, and it would still sell very well for them.

in most cases the transmission and other drive components are designed and built to accommodate the horse power of the engine they are attached to .... with hp upgrades, at what point would beefing up the tranny come into play

Jim

 

[outsydthebox]

that is possible but I'd not want to gamble on it .... I'd want something in writing before taking on such a modification .... with a factory install, they have control over the quality of parts and labor .... with an aftermarket install of the same parts, they have no control over the labor .... one can wait until the factory warranty is over to install it or they can just take a chance

Jim

There is something in writing, it is called "The Magnason-Moss Warranty act. Here is a link and a paragraph that helps to explain it:

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance



Will using 'aftermarket' or recycled parts void my warranty?
No. An 'aftermarket' part is a part made by a company other than the vehicle manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer. A 'recycled' part is a part that was made for and installed in a new vehicle by the manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer, and later removed from the vehicle and made available for resale or reuse. Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.

I hope this helps.

 

[JEBar]

There is something in writing, it is called "The Magnason-Moss Warranty act. Here is a link and a paragraph that helps to explain it:
The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.

I hope this helps.

that is correct but it is my understanding that applies to replacement parts and has nothing to do with installing items or modifications which aren't in keeping with the integrity of the factory build .... buying and installing a replacement part is a very different matter than adding components that weren't factory installed

Jim

 

[goofyone]

in most cases the transmission and other drive components are designed and built to accommodate the horse power of the engine they are attached to .... with hp upgrades, at what point would beefing up the tranny come into play

Jim

It would depend on the transmission model of course however manuals tend to be stronger than automatics and the Elio will pretty much come in a choice of manuals as even the automatic is just the manual with some actuators and a computer for shifting. Transmissions are also generally designed to accommodate a variety of engines so while a change in gear ratio and clutch may be necessary for a major increase in power the actual transmission model would not need to change.

My guess is that the simple software upgrade to 65 HP or so would not impact the stock transmission function in a significant fashion. As for the two higher powered options I wrote about the price of these upgrades would likely have to include a change to a stronger clutch and updated gear ratios along with making the gears and shafts a bit stronger to handle the increased power. When working in volume these changes would be relatively inexpensive as 110+ HP really is not a lot of power as far as engines go.

 

[JEBar]

It would depend on the transmission model of course however manuals tend to be stronger than automatics and the Elio will pretty much come in a choice of manuals as even the automatic is just the manual with some actuators and a computer for shifting.

My guess is that the simple software upgrade to 65 HP or so would not impact the stock transmission function in a significant fashion. As for the two higher powered options I wrote about the price of these upgrades would likely have to include a change to a stronger clutch and updated gear ratios along with making the gears and shafts a bit stronger to handle the increased power. When working in volume these changes would be relatively inexpensive as 110+ HP really is not a lot of power as far as engines go.

makes sense .... info appreciated

Jim

 

[outsydthebox]

that is correct but it is my understanding that applies to replacement parts and has nothing to do with installing items or modifications which aren't in keeping with the integrity of the factory build .... buying and installing a replacement part is a very different matter than adding components that weren't factory installed

Jim

I understand what your saying, but it does cover "aftermarket" parts...including performance equipment. If you notice the last sentence tho, the "burden of proof" is on the manufacturer to prove the damage was caused by the "aftermarket parts." If such damage is proven to be caused by these parts, the warranty is then "void" and repairs are at the expense of the owner.
IIRC, the "Magnuson" part of the act, was in reference to Magnuson superchargers.