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E85, Flex Fuel Engine?

Ty

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The $6 billion-per-year Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit – was finally allowed to expire in 2011 after a Senate amendment to eliminate it offered by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Tom Coburn, R-Okla., passed by a 73-27 margin.
Never said that E85 had as much BTUs as gas.
You are correct on both accounts. I apologize publicly and should have checked those facts a little more closely. I had done research back when I was at Minot and haven't re-elected since. The mandated 10% ethanol blend that is required directly cuts down on imported oil though not 10% worth as vehicles get a little worse gas mileage while using it and it does actually take a bit more fuel to produce it than it does to produce gasoline. (Maybe not much though). But back to your OP, yes, at $100, make sure the engine can burn E85 even though I won't use it.
 

TGElder

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E85 and Ethanol is a major calamity in any internal combustion engine. Ethanol cannot be store more than 30 days or it begins to degrade and draws moisture into the fuels. And moisture in the fuel system is a major problem especially in cold climates where it freezes. Additionally ethanol contributes to fuels system component corrosion and failure. This car could conceivably operate on 190 proof alcohol, but properly calibrated so could any gasoline fired engine. Given the stability of regular gasoline, and the relative ease of obtaining gas, it's probably better not to mess with a good thing. Diesel is an alternative but the gearing of the transmission would have to be entirely different to deal with the lower RPM's associated with diesel drive trains. I'd just as soon that they got the gasoline model off the production line and see how it fares in the market before they decide to look at other optional drive trains.
 

dgruis

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The $6 billion-per-year Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit – was finally allowed to expire in 2011 after a Senate amendment to eliminate it offered by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Tom Coburn, R-Okla., passed by a 73-27 margin.
Never said that E85 had as much BTUs as gas.

The ethanol debate is a topic I have vowed to stop commenting about. Some tend to believe rumor over science and facts.
 

Farm Boy

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E85 and Ethanol is a major calamity in any internal combustion engine. Ethanol cannot be store more than 30 days or it begins to degrade and draws moisture into the fuels. And moisture in the fuel system is a major problem especially in cold climates where it freezes. Additionally ethanol contributes to fuels system component corrosion and failure. This car could conceivably operate on 190 proof alcohol, but properly calibrated so could any gasoline fired engine. Given the stability of regular gasoline, and the relative ease of obtaining gas, it's probably better not to mess with a good thing. Diesel is an alternative but the gearing of the transmission would have to be entirely different to deal with the lower RPM's associated with diesel drive trains. I'd just as soon that they got the gasoline model off the production line and see how it fares in the market before they decide to look at other optional drive trains.
If you wold please read some of the earlier posts in this thread. I and others addressed your concerns about Ethanol.Newer engines, anything built in the last 15 years or so, have stainless steel fuel systems to handle any type of fuel. 30 days storage in a vented container in your hot lawnmower shed, yes the fuel could start to go bad, but who leaves there car set for a month or more without driving it? Have you left straight gas set 30 - 45 days in a similar way, it starts going bad to unless you get the high dollar stuff in a can that is not supposed to go bad for 2 years, at $7.00 a quart it better not. Small engines do have issues, mainly because of fuel mixture calibrations and rubber hose. 2 strokes especially don't like Ethanol it washes out the lubricating oils in the crankcase. You apparently have never used "HEET" in your fuel tank in the cold of winter, because that's what it is and that's what it dose, attracts the water that gets into fuel and keeps it from freezing in the cold, sales of HEET went down after E10 gas came out. And contrary to popular belief diesel will go bad, it just takes longer.
Thanks for your post.
 

dgruis

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If you wold please read some of the earlier posts in this thread. I and others addressed your concerns about Ethanol.Newer engines, anything built in the last 15 years or so, have stainless steel fuel systems to handle any type of fuel. 30 days storage in a vented container in your hot lawnmower shed, yes the fuel could start to go bad, but who leaves there car set for a month or more without driving it? Have you left straight gas set 30 - 45 days in a similar way, it starts going bad to unless you get the high dollar stuff in a can that is not supposed to go bad for 2 years, at $7.00 a quart it better not. Small engines do have issues, mainly because of fuel mixture calibrations and rubber hose. 2 strokes especially don't like Ethanol it washes out the lubricating oils in the crankcase. You apparently have never used "HEET" in your fuel tank in the cold of winter, because that's what it is and that's what it dose, attracts the water that gets into fuel and keeps it from freezing in the cold, sales of HEET went down after E10 gas came out. And contrary to popular belief diesel will go bad, it just takes longer.
Thanks for your post.


Double-like Farmboy...well said.
 

carzes

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Will, or should, the production engine be set up as a flex fuel engine?
Guys, keep it simple! Let 'em get the thing on the road before trying to complicate things. flex fuel = more sensors, more fuel management system to tweak, more testing to do, more parts, more expense.... it might be a thought down the road, but for now, keep it simple and get it on the road.
 

dgruis

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Agreed...I do not believe any of the ethanol supporters were saying, "Absolutely do not ever, produce the Elio without a flex-fuel option."

Rather the Elio is an option to millions of currently operating cars. From a marketing standpoint it seems logical to attract lots of "dreamers" by discussing the potential alternatives to the current car-format which includes lots of potential alternatives to the gasoline powered internal combustion engine.

For example, I see no reason why the Elio format would not be an ideal format for "potential" electric power. The link below shows a young person's twist on the traditional V8.

http://www.iowafarmertoday.com/news...cle_b2e56a84-e684-11e3-8882-0019bb2963f4.html
 

Edward

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For example, I see no reason why the Elio format would not be an ideal format for "potential" electric power.
If they are targeting commuters like myself, electric drivetrain doesn't make any sense. My round-trip commute is almost 150 miles, which may be in the range of some electric vehicles these days, but some days I wind up making that commute TWICE.
 

Joshua Caldwell

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I think the future is constant speed gas powered generators sending electricity to sprung in-hub electric motors and only minimal usage of batteries for acceleration assist instead of powering the the vehicle full time.
 
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