E85, Flex Fuel Engine?

[Ty]

Significantly less Energy per unit? True. But anyone that wants a fast Elio could opt for the whooping 55 hp engine. Again to compare to smart, the original smart diesel was a 799cc engine. Sure an E85 engine would take longer to get to 55 mph, but I do not plan on racing anyone. If I would want to race, I would drop in a Suzuki Hyabusa motorcycle engine with 155 hp. If it fits in a smart, it would easily fit in the Elio.

That little SMART is crazy quick! I wonder what kind of mileage it gets though I know that wasn't the point of the Hyabusa exercise.

 

[dgruis]

Why Elio? Why renewable fuels?

Feasibility includes a combination of economics (supply & demand) , and long-term availability of the energy sources. I assume we all agree that oil is a finite resource. Below are a few snippets from the American Energy Independence website. Weaning ourselves off fossil fuels will be challenging, but we owe it to our children/grand children.

http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/alcoholengines.aspx

USDA tests in 1906 demonstrated the efficiency of alcohol in engines and described how gasoline engines could be modified for higher power with pure alcohol fuel or for equivalent fuel consumption, depending on the need. They found that much higher engine compression ratios could be achieved with alcohol than with gasoline.

The gasoline engine became the preferred engine for the automobile because gasoline was cheaper than alcohol, not because it was a better fuel. And, because alcohol was not available at any price from 1920 to 1933, a period during which the sale, manufacture, and transportation of alcohol was banned nationally as mandated in the Eighteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. The amendment was repealed by the Twenty-First Amendment on December 5, 1933. In time to produce alcohol fuels during World War II.

Why Elio? Pay it Forward - - the Elio is a great step to decrease our use of fossil fuels as our primary energy source. We owe it to future generations to waste as little of this highly concentrated solar energy (oil) as possible.

 

[zelio]

E85 could be worthwhile from a resource and economic perspective IF the production switched from using corn to hemp. Hemp yields 50x the ethanol compared to corn.

First it would have to be legal to grow hemp in this country. Something I personally support very strongly. Hemp seeds are an excellent source of protein but the only sources we have in this country are imported from Canada. Industrial hemp is nutritious, fast growing and the only high you get from eating it is an increase in energy because of improved protein absorption. The remains of the plant can be used for fuel, hempcrete for construction, and is used for interior insulation for cars in the UK because it is lighter weight than traditional materials. It would be excellent in our Elios. Z

 

[Joshua Caldwell]

zelio, the thing is, it is and always has been legal to grow hemp in the country, there are in fact hemp farms. The problem is that they get harassed by the government to repeatedly prove they are growing commercial grade hemp instead of the type you get high from.

 

[zelio]

zelio, the thing is, it is and always has been legal to grow hemp in the country, there are in fact hemp farms. The problem is that they get harassed by the government to repeatedly prove they are growing commercial grade hemp instead of the type you get high from.

From my studies I learned that Richard Nixon was the president who signed the bill or law that made industrial hemp equal to and therefore restricted like marijuana. It is true it is legal to grow it in some states but until the federal government gives up it insistence that marijuana and industrial hemp are the same it is not legal to grow in this country. There is a very active group called Vote Hemp that is trying to get this changed. Canadian hemp is tested to make sure it has no THC or whatever the letters are that allow one to get high on marijuana. Importers are not allowed to send whole seeds into this country. They have to be shelled (if organic) or treated to prevent growth otherwise. Z

 

[Farm Boy]

For those of you how bash eatonal, let me remind you what it was brought in to replace, Tetra-Ethel-Lead , the additive in leaded gas. If you want to talk about engine dammage Tetra-Ethel-Lead was HARD on engines. 100K in the 60s & 70s was the exseption for engine life and now its common place. And let us not forget MTBE, another wunderful fuel additive brought to us by BIG OIL. It stays in the enviroment like lead and DDT. Eethonal, from any sorce to me is better than more oil. FYI industrial hemp grow very well on marginal land, land that is not very good for corn or soybean prodution.
P.S. It takes ALOT of energy to get the hydegen out of water not to metion the cost of storage and shiping.

 

[Ty]

Lead provided a soft landing point for valves... particularly exhaust valves. When they decided to remove lead from gas completely, I was glad my '65 Mustang had a 351 Windsor motor from a '74 truck as the '74 had hardened valve seats. Now, if you ran unleaded gas in a '60s car, you'd kill it. I remember that even though they pulled lead from gas, you could get lead additive.
Gasoline has 114,000 but per gallon vs. Ethanol's 76,100 btu.
What about diesel? 129,500 btu
Then, why use Ethanol at all? It has a very high octane (prevents is from pre-detonation). Mixing some with gasoline allows you to run a higher compression ratio which lets you put a turbo on a smaller engine which can increase fuel efficiency... whew.

 

[Farm Boy]

It is the leftovers from combustion that killed the engines. Build up on the pistions and ring, not to mention the crud that contaminated the oil. It did help the valves but at a cost to the rest of the engine. Its easy to replace the valves, seats and guides when you rebuild with hardened ones and your set, nothing else needed to run unleaded. I have run old tractors that didn't have hard valves & seats and the ran a good long time with no issues and a tractor is usualy running at peak output more of the time than a car. I still say, make your own ethanol run on it and cut out the middle man!

 

[zelio]

It is the leftovers from combustion that killed the engines. Build up on the pistions and ring, not to mention the crud that contaminated the oil. It did help the valves but at a cost to the rest of the engine. Its easy to replace the valves, seats and guides when you rebuild with hardened ones and your set, nothing else needed to run unleaded. I have run old tractors that didn't have hard valves & seats and the ran a good long time with no issues and a tractor is usualy running at peak output more of the time than a car. I still say, make your own ethanol run on it and cut out the middle man!

My older son would love to meet you. He is an Elio fan and an ethanol user. He doesn't make his own ethanol - yet. LOL :-) Z

 

[KN16]

All other arguments a side when you buy E85 it can legally be any thing from 85 to 100% alcohol. (most likely 100% as gasoline is the expensive component). You can of course use 100% gasoline. That means the mixture in your tank can be almost anything.

The sensor it takes to analyze this and make the appropriate air\fuel mixture adjustments is hellaciously expensive and would blow the <$7K mark out of the water.