E85, Flex Fuel Engine?

[dgruis]

Significantly less Energy per unit? True. But anyone that wants a fast Elio could opt for the whooping 55 hp engine. Again to compare to smart, the original smart diesel was a 799cc engine. Sure an E85 engine would take longer to get to 55 mph, but I do not plan on racing anyone. If I would want to race, I would drop in a Suzuki Hyabusa motorcycle engine with 155 hp. If it fits in a smart, it would easily fit in the Elio.

 

[jtmarten]

Bad for chain saws, boat motors not good on any engine with a carburetor and not fuel injection

Hmmm .... not good for use with carbs or fuel injection ..... so it only works well if you pour it from a can straight into the intake runners????

 

[jtmarten]

E85 could be worthwhile from a resource and economic perspective IF the production switched from using corn to hemp. Hemp yields 50x the ethanol compared to corn.

 

[Farm Boy]

Carbs no, Fuel injection YES. You can set up the fuel injection to automaticaly compensate for the ethanol to run properly and the carb is set and cant unless you do it manually. I very much like the idea of hemp! It's a very versatile crop and is good for more then just ethanol .

 

[Brainmatter]

In a properly designed system E85 would do just fine. Typically all it really needs to be bulletproof is some key components in the fuel system to be made from stainless steel etc. Injector windings have to be E85 tolerant. Stuff like that. Conventional engine components hold up just fine.

Ford did long term research years ago on their E85 3.0L Vulcan "flex fuel" engine installed in Taurus and Ranger vehicles. They did find that the Valves tended to wear more than in a conventional gasoline engine due to the 'dry' nature of the fuel, but this did not even come into play until well after 150,000 miles of normal mixed use. No other problems noted. The only changes to these engines other than fuel mapping and other electronic tweaks were to the fuel system only. all other 'hard' parts were regular production parts.

Also, don't forget that for those who want a performance increase, E85 provides that. Ethanol has an extra Oxygen molecule bound to it, that is why it is less efficient: it has more oxygen 'built' into it, so you have to add more fuel to the system to keep the A/F ratio correct. In super simple terms it's like a built in mini nitrous system; more air and fuel get into the combustion chamber with no change needed in volumetric efficiency. On a small engine like this I'd geuss it could easily be worth 5HP. On every vehicle I've driven running full E85 vs regular 10%, it's a difference you can definitely feel. It is surprising.

All that said I'm not a huge proponent of E85 myself. Too many aspects (especially corn based ethanol) do not make sense imo; economics, total environmental impact, global food supply, etc etc. But where it really matters is the cost savings do not make up for economy sacrifice even here in MN where it is heavily subsidized. The performance increase may be worth it to some, but not really to me once the economy is factored in. But the technology needed to exploit its use is here now. In and of itself it's not "garbage" or adversely affect anything that is designed properly to use it. We just need a source and a price that makes sense.

 

[Dustoff]

Will, or should, the production engine be set up as a flex fuel engine?

I asked that question and was told by Elio that the engine will operate on E15 unleaded gasoline.

 

[Ty]

Ethanol fuel also has the annoying habit of accumulating water in the gas tank till finally it ruins something important. I don't like that Ethanol is still heavily subsidized by the good old tax payer. I'd never use ethanol but I think there are just a few rubber parts that would have to be changed, a fuel type sensor unique to E-85 engines, and a software change to make an engine run on both. it should be fairly straight forward. chevy has been using the E85 umbrella for a long time so they could claim to have alternative fuel vehicles on the road. I'm betting most have never used ethanol fuel either. My wife has and she got significantly less mileage with it than without. Despite the price difference, she hasn't used it since.

 

[Ty]

E85? I am very in favor of an E85/flex fuel option. In Des Moines, IA E85 today is $2.49 and regular is $3.19 per gallon. Even with a decrease in mpg the cost difference/mile E85 vs. Regular is trivial. In Iowa, I have used a 13% ethanol blend gas for roughly 20 years. The claims about engine damage by ethanol are promoted heavily by big oil. Should we believe big oil who do not want us to use ethanol? I have friends with E85/flex-fuel vehicles and they love them, several of them are over 150,000 miles each. It is a fact that some components on older engines are destroyed by ethanol, newer engines replace the components with stainless steel or ethanol-safe materials.

"Big oil" promotes ethanol engine damage? I've never seen such documentation. I do know that they are responsible for 85% of every single gallon of E85 consumed though and since "Big oil" sells that very same ethanol, it wouldn't make sense that they would say "Hey, our gas destroys engines! Come sue us!" Just my two cents.

 

[goofyone]

"Big oil" promotes ethanol engine damage? I've never seen such documentation. I do know that they are responsible for 85% of every single gallon of E85 consumed though and since "Big oil" sells that very same ethanol, it wouldn't make sense that they would say "Hey, our gas destroys engines! Come sue us!" Just my two cents.

In some way E85 actually helps "Big Oil". As Brainmatter and Ty have pointed out cars burning E85 are actually less fuel efficient than conventional gas blends.

 

[Ty]

I'm waiting for my hydrogen fuel cell car... hydrogen made using solar power... Boy, wouldn't it be something to have clear solar panels covering the vehicle converting water to hydrogen when not in use... using the hydrogen as a fuel cell creating power and water... re-using that same water the next time the car is just sitting around gathering sunlight... A man can dream, right? Oh, and the car should look and handle like a Ferrari! LOL.
(If you took this post seriously, you really shouldn't have)