floydv
Elio Addict
Maybe Tesla should've copied the SRK's nice door design for their Model X. Would've been simpler, I think.
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Arcimoto
- Thread starter ChuckP
- Start date
bunchathrees
Elio Addict
If those panels and especially the roof were photo voltaic, range anxiety would be reduced. I might even consider buying one then.
Rob Croson
Elio Addict
Solar panels on a vehicle are useless. There's simply not enough surface area available on a vehicle to fill more than a tiny fraction of the battery. And definitely nowhere near enough to drive.
https://solarpowerrocks.com/solar-basics/how-much-electricity-does-a-solar-panel-produce/
"A typical solar panel produces around 200 watts of power. "
The "typical" panel they are talking about is too big to fit on the SRK. A pretty efficient Sanyo panel that produces 205W is 35"x52". Or 3'x4.5', if that's easier to visualize. At 200W, that would take 5 hours to produce 1 kWh of power. The Nissan Leaf typically has a 24kWh battery. (Some have a 30 kWh?) At 12 hours of strong sunlight per day, that would take 10 days for one solar panel to charge the battery, even assuming that you could get a panel that size to fit the car. (You can't.) That's also a serious overestimation of the actual amount of daylight you would see, and the amount of energy you can get from that daylight. At my location, that panel will only provide 1.1 kWh per day. (According to the calculator at http://www.wunderground.com/calculators/solar.html)
The Nissan Leaf gets ~90 miles per 24kWh. Or about 3.75 miles per kWh. At 5 hours per kWh, you're talking 1.3 hours to generate enough electricity to drive 1 mile. Assuming full efficiency of the solar panel, and bright sunlight for that whole hour.
Now, if you live in Death Valley, you might get better charging efficiency. So, I'll give you 1 hour per mile. (But if you're in Death Valley, you'd probably want the AC, which would greatly reduce your range, so you wouldn't get 1 hour per mile anyway.)
Oh, and that Sanyo solar cell would set you back almost $1,400. Getting it custom-fitted to conform to the roof of your car? I'm not even gonna go there.
Sethodine
Elio Addict
In short, PV panels are too large and too heavy to mount efficiently on a vehicle. Thas said, some models of the Leaf actually have a little PV panel in the spoiler to keep the 12v battery topped off.
Actually, someplace hot and with lots of sun can reduce PV panel efficiency. It's not just about how much light you collect, but the temperature of the panels as well. PV become less efficient as their temperature rises; this is actually part of why solar power is becoming so popular up in the Pacific Northwest. Even though the clouds and mountains prevent some direct sunlight, lower temperatures and cloudcover light refaction actually make the panels operate more efficiency than they do in, say, Arizona. Just gotta stick'em someplace where they're not in the shadow of the trees!
Actually, someplace hot and with lots of sun can reduce PV panel efficiency. It's not just about how much light you collect, but the temperature of the panels as well. PV become less efficient as their temperature rises; this is actually part of why solar power is becoming so popular up in the Pacific Northwest. Even though the clouds and mountains prevent some direct sunlight, lower temperatures and cloudcover light refaction actually make the panels operate more efficiency than they do in, say, Arizona. Just gotta stick'em someplace where they're not in the shadow of the trees!
bunchathrees
Elio Addict
You cannot argue with an irrational fear. There is no winning argument - certainly not one which involves numbers. If they wanted a vehicle like this to appeal to a wider market, there would need to be a backup plan built-in to the vehicle.
When I spent my entire day within a 10-mile radius of my apartment, the Arcimoto might have been a cool solution. I can't imagine that I alone experience unplanned life-altering events. Now that I commute quite a distance, this machine would no longer make sense - unless there were a backup and a backup to the backup.
Maybe there is a business opportunity here - should the machine make it to market. If not PV, if not an on-board pedal-powered charger, if not a roving Uber-like charging-station-on-wheels-just-waiting-to-be-called, then maybe something else (an on-board ICE generator like the McLaren P1?).
When I spent my entire day within a 10-mile radius of my apartment, the Arcimoto might have been a cool solution. I can't imagine that I alone experience unplanned life-altering events. Now that I commute quite a distance, this machine would no longer make sense - unless there were a backup and a backup to the backup.
Maybe there is a business opportunity here - should the machine make it to market. If not PV, if not an on-board pedal-powered charger, if not a roving Uber-like charging-station-on-wheels-just-waiting-to-be-called, then maybe something else (an on-board ICE generator like the McLaren P1?).
Sethodine
Elio Addict
Any additional generators etc. is going to add weight, which would reduce the range of the battery in addition to the added expense.
The range of the SRK is fine. It's not a replacement for a car if you have to commute--that's what the Elio is for
Rob Croson
Elio Addict
It doesn't make sense for me, either. I have no use for a short-range, non-highway-speed runabout. Especially one that costs $12k. But if you're going to look for some kind of backup power supply for it, you at least need to pick one that's viable. PV panels just isn't it. Maybe the bicycle pedal thing? Probably not. I've found quotes of 100-200W for the average person pedaling at a constant rate, with an experienced, and highly physically fit, biker being able to do short bursts up to about 400W. Thing is, at that rate you'd need long, sustained effort. That means you couldn't count on more than 150W for any length of time. So that's even less efficient than solar panels. (Unless it's at night...) (And you need to consume approx. 1 calorie per watt generated.)
So I guess the answer is that you need to buy the vehicle that fits your needs. And if your needs include long trips that are near or over the range of the EV, don't get the EV. Which is why I'm not even considering and current-generation EV. The new Tesla Model 3 might work, but the starting price is $35k. And they say you won't be able to get one even approaching that low a price until some time in 2017. Probably late 2017. They are going to front-load the production line with high-priced luxury models to recoup their investment before they start building the base models.
Sethodine
Elio Addict
EVs are ideal for people who do most of their driving in town, but modern EVs are perfectly capable of short commutes. For instance, my wife is a caregiver, which means she's driving all over town to different clients houses, taking them shopping or to doctor's appointments etc. So the Leaf is perfect for her needs. Most nights, she plugs it in with over 60% battery remaining, because low-speed driving doesn't take much energy. On days she doesn't need it, I use it for the 30-mile commute to work (so 60 miles round-trip) and we save a bit on gas money.
But then again, $12k for a new SRK or $14k for a used Leaf.... I'd go with the Leaf all over again rather than buy the SRK, but that's just me.
But then again, $12k for a new SRK or $14k for a used Leaf.... I'd go with the Leaf all over again rather than buy the SRK, but that's just me.
I don't think Arcimoto is marketing to those that have no interest in EV's or travel daily in 83 mph traffic. I wouldn't want a daily commute in that kind of traffic in a car. They understand that the SRK doesn't meet the needs for those with commutes that exceed the daily 70 or 140 mile range options and are supportive of the Elio by wishing them success. It's not a competition, but rather vehicle options and choices for varying demographics.
The SRK is an "and" urban commuter, like the "and" suburban Elio commuter. Range anxiety is not an issue for me if I plan my distance traveled. The battery could die in my Elio or some other mechanical breakdown along the journey. My personal backup plan is AAA's Roadside Assist regardless of which vehicle I choose to drive for the day.
The SRK is an "and" urban commuter, like the "and" suburban Elio commuter. Range anxiety is not an issue for me if I plan my distance traveled. The battery could die in my Elio or some other mechanical breakdown along the journey. My personal backup plan is AAA's Roadside Assist regardless of which vehicle I choose to drive for the day.
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