Arcimoto

[3wheelin]

EV charging and Air Conditioning power draws are in similar range. L1 trickle charging from a 110v home socket is comparable to those little window-box A/C units, and L2 charging is in the same range as the larger central air units. However, A/C is almost universally used during peak power (daytime) while EVs are almost always charged at night, during off-peak hours. They are not a "greater draw" than A/C units.

Furthermore, an L2 fast-charging station can be installed anywhere that can support a 220v, 30amp circuit. Essentially, any streetside business or parking lot could install an L2 charger with very little hassle. Meanwhile, installing a gas station requires permiting, zoning, huge construction costs, and continuous logistics support to keep it fueled and operating. EV charging stations can be distributed across an entire city, or installed at even the most remote locations and podunk towns with very little effort. The only charging stations that take a large infrastructure investment are the DC Fast Charging stations (Tesla superchargers and CHAdeMo ports). And even those are much cheaper to install than a highway gas station.

Imagine if every parking meter could also fuel up your car. That is what a world of city-wide EV charging would look like, and I think I would be OK with that

5 stars! Good reply!

 

[3wheelin]

I already have a homebrewed three wheel electric vehicle - this looks like my vehicle's big brother (mine is limited to 30MPH, 1 seat, and 2 small sacks of groceries, 40 mile range. ) People's concerns about electric vehicles (range) are worrying about something that isn't that big a deal once you have one - you just figure out how far you can go, and if you can't go that far, you drive something else. If you have to you find ways of getting a partial charge. I am always hitting up people, know where there are free public outlets in parks, and so on for a little booster charge. I have certain businesses that I have an agreement with "I'll eat lunch at your restaurant whenever I need a charge if you'll let me" and the owner is like "Sure!"

I'm already a fan of the Arcimoto - now let's hope it isn't an Elio-Killer! Certainly worth watching - and with the agressive production schedule (vapour-schedule, likely) my biggest worry is reliability and safety - they haven't done as much homework as Elio has done!

Nope, Arcimoto are being tested on Japanese and European streets for a while now for it's reliability and safety while ELIO is just starting the e-series for it's own "INTERNAL" testing. No real world testing yet in public streets or highways.

 

[Rickb]

I wish I'm well off like you Rickb because I'll do the same!
I like the I-Road because of it's leaning technology, it's electric and I know they're still working to improve the speed and MPGe before it comes out.
Likewise, I like the SRK EV because they already got me hooked on 7+sec 0-60 and longer range,
And our sentimental favorite, the ELIO which could really change how we drive by it's targeted goals! But it's a win win situation for everybody if ELIO comes first to the finish line so, yes GO ELIO!

It's fun to watch all the enclosed three wheeler concept options that are on the horizon, both EV and high mpg ICE drive trains. I support them all as future daily commuters with one to certainly meet everybody's needs at affordable pricepoints particularly when they will all pay for themselves over 4-5 years in fuel and maintenance savings alone.

If we were well off, we could buy them all if or when available and start a collection of and vehicles.

 

[Rickb]

Nope, Arcimoto are being tested on Japanese and European streets for a while now for it's reliability and safety while ELIO is just starting the e-series for it's own "INTERNAL" testing. No real world testing yet in public streets or highways.

In case you meant the Toyota i-Road is being tested in Japan, European streets. and on the ride and drive circuits throughout the USA for 3 years now.

Arcimoto just started touring and testing the Gen 8 SRK on USA Ride and Drive events over the last 3-4 months and plan on building 50 SRK Betas early spring for further testing. They will have many test miles on the SRK's in the process of building the final production SRK.

There is at least one SRK pre-order from an EV Blog friend of mine living in Germany........so Arcimoto is targeting worldwide distribution. lol

 

[Rickb]

EV charging and Air Conditioning power draws are in similar range. L1 trickle charging from a 110v home socket is comparable to those little window-box A/C units, and L2 charging is in the same range as the larger central air units. However, A/C is almost universally used during peak power (daytime) while EVs are almost always charged at night, during off-peak hours. They are not a "greater draw" than A/C units.

Furthermore, an L2 fast-charging station can be installed anywhere that can support a 220v, 30amp circuit. Essentially, any streetside business or parking lot could install an L2 charger with very little hassle. Meanwhile, installing a gas station requires permiting, zoning, huge construction costs, and continuous logistics support to keep it fueled and operating. EV charging stations can be distributed across an entire city, or installed at even the most remote locations and podunk towns with very little effort. The only charging stations that take a large infrastructure investment are the DC Fast Charging stations (Tesla superchargers and CHAdeMo ports). And even those are much cheaper to install than a highway gas station.

Imagine if every parking meter could also fuel up your car. That is what a world of city-wide EV charging would look like, and I think I would be OK with that

Thanks for that fact checked reply on charging EV's.

 

[Jeff Miller]

EV charging and Air Conditioning power draws are in similar range. L1 trickle charging from a 110v home socket is comparable to those little window-box A/C units, and L2 charging is in the same range as the larger central air units. However, A/C is almost universally used during peak power (daytime) while EVs are almost always charged at night, during off-peak hours. They are not a "greater draw" than A/C units.

Furthermore, an L2 fast-charging station can be installed anywhere that can support a 220v, 30amp circuit. Essentially, any streetside business or parking lot could install an L2 charger with very little hassle. Meanwhile, installing a gas station requires permiting, zoning, huge construction costs, and continuous logistics support to keep it fueled and operating. EV charging stations can be distributed across an entire city, or installed at even the most remote locations and podunk towns with very little effort. The only charging stations that take a large infrastructure investment are the DC Fast Charging stations (Tesla superchargers and CHAdeMo ports). And even those are much cheaper to install than a highway gas station.

Imagine if every parking meter could also fuel up your car. That is what a world of city-wide EV charging would look like, and I think I would be OK with that

I just did a little looking around and yes, I see that current draw for A/C and EV charging is similar. Yes, A/C is on during the day but typically I think the brownouts occur when people are returning from work and turning on their A/C when they get home. Isn't this exactly what you would be doing with your EV car? Furthermore, if you have limited range and make the 8 trips a day that many homes do then it seems that there would be a very high likelihood that you would be using the fast charge during the day between trips. If A/C and other electrical uses are already pushing our grid to failure then piling on EVs will only make things worse. I stand by my original assertion that EVs cannot scale without crippling our electric grid.

If we choose to ignore the issues with the grid we can talk about the efficiency of fueling with gas vs. electric. Sure, it may take some effort to get a new gas station built and put in place but for the most part the gas infrastructure is already there so this really isn't an issue. Additionally, it takes only minutes to fuel your gas car so several gas vehicles can move through the gas station in a short period of time.

Electric charging stations are not in very many places and the small number of EV users are already fighting over access to them; clearly the infrastructure to support large numbers of EVs is not in place. This leads to the next question of what it might take to create the infrastructure needed to charge large numbers of EVs (again,assuming the grid doesn't melt).

It takes hours to charge an EV so charging stations remain tied up for lengthy periods of time as opposed to gas cars that can fuel up in minutes and move out of the way. This means that if you want to charge a similar number of EVs vs. gas cars that you would need to have significantly more charging stations spread across a much larger area so that all of those EVs can be charging at the same time instead of just queued and moving through the gas station.

Charging stations at every parking spot would clearly be your nirvana but it simply is not economically feasible. Consider that of the charging stations that have been installed in Minneapolis; in order to be able to provide the necessary power they are grouped in small numbers in dedicated parking spaces. ALL of these have been installed and are being operated at a loss and only really exist because of taxpayer support. Subsidizing may work for a small number of people but simply won't scale to large numbers of EVs. In the meantime you have businesses and other drivers that are annoyed that prime parking spaces are unusable when they are empty and EV drivers that are pissed when that can't get access to the few charging stations available.

Each charging station requires the initial investment in the charger itself, the installation, power delivery, the ongoing maintenance, etc.. Who should pay for this? In the case of gas the gas station owner pays for the station, the pumps, the maintenance, the workers, etc and they expect to make their money back through gas and in store purchases. Due to the length of time to charge, the same density of customers does not exist for EV charging and without the density there is a loss of the additional in store sales. Also consider that because so many charging stations are needed vs fuel pumps that initial installation as well as maintenance costs will be staggering in comparison. I don't believe private industry could make the money necessary to support this and so I don't believe there would ever be a large number of EV charging stations available. Again, EVs work for small numbers but they simply can't scale.

 

[3wheelin]

In case you meant the Toyota i-Road is being tested in Japan, European streets. and on the ride and drive circuits throughout the USA for 3 years now.

Arcimoto just started touring and testing the Gen 8 SRK on USA Ride and Drive events over the last 3-4 months and plan on building 50 SRK Betas early spring for further testing. They will have many test miles on the SRK's in the process of building the final production SRK.

There is at least one SRK pre-order from an EV Blog friend of mine living in Germany........so Arcimoto is targeting worldwide distribution. lol

Thanks for correcting me- yes, I was actually thinking of the I-road!

 

[Elio Amazed]

I like to think of it as the I-canbeatthisthingonmyschwinn.

 

[Rob Croson]

Again, EVs work for small numbers but they simply can't scale.

You make a lot of good points. The extra strain on the distribution system will be incredible if plug-in EVs ever make it to widespread distribution.

An alternative would be induction charging through special road ways. This would also greatly improve the range and feasibility of EVs for people that drive longer distances. I'd be able to drive an electric if the interstate highways could induction-charge a car.

 

[3wheelin]

Nope, Arcimoto are being tested on Japanese and European streets for a while now for it's reliability and safety while ELIO is just starting the e-series for it's own "INTERNAL" testing. No real world testing yet in public streets or highways.

My apologies! I was thinking of the Toyota I-road, not the Arcimoto.