100 Preproduction Elio's To Be Built In December!!

[AriLea]

These vehicles are called "preproduction". Is that how EM justifies selling these vehicles before the Spot IN Line people?

As usual, this is my educated guess on this activity;

The 'production' designation is like a promise, to give this segment of customers the safety tested version that everyone else gets. One other thing expected is to qualify by federal standards and licensing. But BOTH the pre-100 and regular production will have crash tested, licensed and warrantied product.

So yes, pretty much a 'pre-' designation is justification, but it has a good purpose to give EM a chance to do deeper 'product' testing, and be paid well for it. It IS a good service to the bulk customer, since this moves the effort along. ANYTHING that will do that, I'm all for it.

However, you must recognize this 100 is not specifically for safety, this is for reliability primarily and only for safety as it relates to well-used hardware. So as far as product liability and safety liability, there is very little more risk in pre-sales compared to the first 1000 production version Elios. In fact this is a lot lower risk than going directly to unqualified and unknown customer types.

I live 5 miles from an old GM testing track. GM would spend millions to road test for reliability. This Elio pre-production method actually makes money for Elio. Partly Elio can do this because the Elio is sticking to very standard design and engineering for the suspension with fewer variables, so reduced risk.

SO about racing, that use of the 100 would introduce unknown legal risks with very little applicability to the intended customer. It would not be real-world. OK the test customer is not real-world either, but much more so, by design, than racing would be. Race hardening is good, but real world testing is more on-target at the moment.

 

[AriLea]

Forewarning: Yes, everything I say is my personal opinion. Isn't everything we say our personal opinion? ..
I can think of two types of companies that might be interested in these vehicle:

1. A company that makes racing vehicles or races them
2. A small volume vehicle (motorcycle trike) company.

Each has different merits. ....
.

On #2, I would not think so. Elio would pick the best most useful fleet buyers for this 100 vehicle program.

It's very hard to gather feedback from the general public, especially with another intermediary. Most likely the fleet customer chosen will have control over or intimate relations with the user. Like taxy drivers or delivery. Who ever it is, there is likely an agreement Elio and the fleet operator have and want, daily and prompt feedback plus fast response to mechanical or safety concerns.

So I would also eliminate rentals, since these users are not obligated to provide detailed feedback on demand. And they would not follow instructions very well, like "stop immediately and call in". In fact customers lie to improve their personal enrichment.

 

[Ekh]

As usual, this is my educated guess on this activity;

SO about racing, that use of the 100 would introduce unknown legal risks with very little applicability to the intended customer. It would not be real-world. OK the test customer is not real-world either, but much more so, by design, than racing would be. Race hardening is good, but real world testing is more on-target at the moment.

The whole racing thing was nonsense from the start -- it would be grossly off-mission for Elio at this time, and as you point out, wouldn't benefit the production car all that much.

Fleet use absolutely DOES benefit the production car because all the little things that only emerge over time will have been found (well, most of them anyhow). For instance, the positioning of the trunk latch is bad; it's very exposed and is just asking to have bags and things get caught on it. I learned that that in fact happened to the tour team just the other day. Maybe no big deal, but if 35 fleet drivers wind up swearing at the trunk latch, it will be changed.

Another thing I noticed in Detroit was that the door liner under the "pocket" is very easily scuffed -- and the P5 was just about new when I saw it. Let's see what the fleet operators reveal; maybe a tougher plastic for that particular part is in order. Etc.

 

[AriLea]

The whole racing thing was nonsense from the start -- it would be grossly off-mission for Elio at this time, and as you point out, wouldn't benefit the production car all that much.

Fleet use absolutely DOES benefit the production car because all the little things that only emerge over time will have been found (well, most of them anyhow). For instance, the positioning of the trunk latch is bad; it's very exposed and is just asking to have bags and things get caught on it. I learned that that in fact happened to the tour team just the other day. Maybe no big deal, but if 35 fleet drivers wind up swearing at the trunk latch, it will be changed.

Another thing I noticed in Detroit was that the door liner under the "pocket" is very easily scuffed -- and the P5 was just about new when I saw it. Let's see what the fleet operators reveal; maybe a tougher plastic for that particular part is in order. Etc.

Meter readers of any kind would be about as good as it gets. So I vote for some utility company or city or county willing to take the risk for the enormous cost savings benefits. Geek Squad is another good fleet type. Anyone who goes places individually, brings very little with them and no additional passengers. Inspectors of every kind are probably good. Like rail line, power line and gas line inspectors.

 

[floydv]

The whole racing thing was nonsense from the start -- it would be grossly off-mission for Elio at this time, and as you point out, wouldn't benefit the production car all that much.

Fleet use absolutely DOES benefit the production car because all the little things that only emerge over time will have been found (well, most of them anyhow). For instance, the positioning of the trunk latch is bad; it's very exposed and is just asking to have bags and things get caught on it. I learned that that in fact happened to the tour team just the other day. Maybe no big deal, but if 35 fleet drivers wind up swearing at the trunk latch, it will be changed.

Another thing I noticed in Detroit was that the door liner under the "pocket" is very easily scuffed -- and the P5 was just about new when I saw it. Let's see what the fleet operators reveal; maybe a tougher plastic for that particular part is in order. Etc.

Maybe they'll put hood pins in the trunk.

 

[pistonboy]

To me, am important question is if the 100 preproduction vehicles are vehicles that would have been built anyway as part of their development plan, or, are they extra vehicles they did not intend to produce originally.

 

[floydv]

To me, am important question is if the 100 preproduction vehicles are vehicles that would have been built anyway as part of their development plan, or, are they extra vehicles they did not intend to produce originally.

See page 17 of the Offering Circular:

Incorporated into the launch is the plan that the first 125 vehicles produced will not be sold, but utilized for internal purposes

https://startenginebetadev.s3.amazo...3164000300018e/Offering_Circular_11-20-15.pdf

 

[Ekh]

Meter readers of any kind would be about as good as it gets. So I vote for some utility company or city or county willing to take the risk for the enormous cost savings benefits. Geek Squad is another good fleet type. Anyone who goes places individually, brings very little with them and no additional passengers. Inspectors of every kind are probably good. Like rail line, power line and gas line inspectors.

The first 100 fleet vehicles are for commercial, not governmental or non-profit operators. That's definite.

 

[pistonboy]

If the 100 preproduction vehicles are part of the test vehicles they planned anyway, then EM is simply salvaging vehicles that would otherwise be destroyed. Motor companies do not sell their test vehicles. They destroy them.

We are laboring under the impression these are 100 complete vehicles built for fleet purpose in the real world. That may not be true. They may be salvage vehicles EM has left over from their testing. If so, they may not be complete vehicles. If they are salvaging their test vehicles, this is a smart decision on their part.

 

[pistonboy]

See page 17 of the Offering Circular:



https://startenginebetadev.s3.amazo...3164000300018e/Offering_Circular_11-20-15.pdf

Thanks.

It says: "Incorporated into the launch is the plan that the first 125 vehicles produced will not be sold, but utilized for internal purposes."

I believe that is referring to not selling the vehicles to "consumers", and would not exclude selling salvage to racing companies.