Legal: Motorcycle License And Helmet Laws

[outsydthebox]

Kinda, sorta, but not always. In the motorcycling world, I see reciprocity usually applied to vehicle equipment or modifications, but never to practices.

For example, I ride a motorcycle and ALWAYS wear a helmet, even though Colorado doesn't require them. That said, riding without a helmet is legal in Colorado but if I cross the border into Nebraska, helmets are required of all riders - despite the fact they're not required in my home state. Another practices example, lane splitting/sharing is allowed for motorcycles in California, but a CA rider would be ticketed for doing that here in CO.

Window tinting, mentioned in another post, would be an example of equipment modifications allowed in one state (darkness of tint) that might not be allowed in another, resulting in a contact/warning but not a ticket.

So, until the Elio/helmet question is resolved in ALL states, I'd treat it as a practices issue and not an equipment issue and not rely on reciprocity. I do have confidence, however, that the EM team is on it and will have it resolved before production!

Well said. And welcome to the family!

 

[goofyone]

Let's hope that this requirement for title in Fla. doesn't cause any problems for EM...
Found in Section II General Information:

"NOTE: A tri-vehicle is not a motorcycle. FRVIS will not allow this vehicle type to be entered

as the body type for a motorcycle (MC).
D. A manufacturer, importer, distributor, or dealer of tri-vehicles must be licensed.
The Bureau of Field Operations (BFO) Dealer Licensing Section will verify tri-vehicle
applications from manufacturers, importers, and distributors with NHTSA. As tri-vehicle
manufacturers, importers, distributors, and dealers are licensed, BFO will approve the
line makes, and these vehicles will be captured as tri-vehicles in FRVIS.
NOTE: Only NHTSA-approved tri-vehicles from authorized manufacturers, importers, and

distributors may be titled and registered."

Does the second note mean that NHTSA will require these vehicles (which are currently defined as motorcycles) to now meet all the requirements of regular 4 wheeled autos? If so I suspect this may not be such a good thing... Think safety bumpers, mandatory crash tests etc...
I also noticed they are going to tax it like a regular automobile...

"B. A tri-vehicle is registered and taxed in the same manner as an automobile. Calculate the
fees like a regular auto using the appropriate motor vehicle class code based on the net
weight and registered use of the tri-vehicle."

It would be interesting to see what the difference in taxes are when titled as a car vs. as a motorcycle...

The simple answer is that you will be able to register the Elio in Florida as it will be an NHTSA approved vehicle.

Please try not to confuse yourself as you must keep in mind that these are purely state regulations on how state employees should enter the vehicle into their system and tax it and as such these state rules have no bearing whatsoever on what the NHTSA does. The NHTSA says that any vehicle with less than four wheels is regulated as a motorcycle and receives a motorcycle VIN. The states can then take this information and tax, tag, and require licensing as they see fit.

 

[goofyone]

As I see it, the questions for Elio are,

1. Will Elio be treated like a car in Florida, and will it require a car licence plate, or MC plate?

2. Will we not be able to drive in the HOV lanes as promoted by Elio Motors

3. IF it is a car, then no MC endorsement, no helmet. If it has a car plate, what happens when you drive through a state that requires a MC licence and helment.

4. Will it be insured as a car or MC.

These item will affect Elio's popularity with people and I'm sure affect sales if not resolved, prior to purchase.

For information on how tri-vehicles are taxed, titled, and tagged carefully read this document: http://www3.flhsmv.gov/dmv/Proc/TL/TL-67.PDF

1. Florida has a separate category called tri-vehicles and as such it will be treated as a tri-vehicle. The document does not state what plate is issued however the Elio is designed to accommodate both size plates. I know we have a member, ClubJoe, who has several three wheelers in Florida and I am sure he would know.

2. "A tri-vehicle is an inherently low-emission vehicle (ILEV). Therefore, it may be driven in an HOV (high occupancy vehicle) lane." See document above

3. Licensing law is different from traffic law. Licensing law is reciprocal across states so if you are legally registered and entitled to drive the vehicle in your home state you can visit other states as long as you are following your home state rules. Helmets are traffic law and as such you are subject to the local laws wherever you go.

4. This is actually up to the insurance companies to decide. You will just have to ensure your insurance meet the minimum coverage requirements for your state.

 

[goofyone]

yeah, but all states have resoprosity of many things, including vehicle reg and lic, so if a state has a catagory of vehicle that another state doesn't, that could cause a conflict, as far as helmet laws, tag size, number of doors, etc, etc.........

Kinda, sorta, but not always. In the motorcycling world, I see reciprocity usually applied to vehicle equipment or modifications, but never to practices.

For example, I ride a motorcycle and ALWAYS wear a helmet, even though Colorado doesn't require them. That said, riding without a helmet is legal in Colorado but if I cross the border into Nebraska, helmets are required of all riders - despite the fact they're not required in my home state. Another practices example, lane splitting/sharing is allowed for motorcycles in California, but a CA rider would be ticketed for doing that here in CO.

Window tinting, mentioned in another post, would be an example of equipment modifications allowed in one state (darkness of tint) that might not be allowed in another, resulting in a contact/warning but not a ticket.

So, until the Elio/helmet question is resolved in ALL states, I'd treat it as a practices issue and not an equipment issue and not rely on reciprocity. I do have confidence, however, that the EM team is on it and will have it resolved before production!

This is confusing because we are lumping three different areas of the law into one discussion. There is a legal line separating how vehicles are operated, how vehicles are regulated, and how vehicle modifications are regulated. Laws concerning how vehicles should be operated (helmets and traffic laws) are always subject to local jurisdictional control. Laws about the regulation of vehicles (tax, tag, title, insurance, licensing) are always applied in the home jurisdiction. Vehicle modifications laws however sit in a legal grey area.

Helmets requirements, lane spitting, and lane sharing rules are all part of traffic law and you are always required to follow local traffic laws. These regulation are all related to the manner in which vehicles are operated.

Vehicle license plates, insurance requirements, and operator endorsement requirements are covered under licensing law and is reciprocal across jurisdictions. As long as you are legally entitled to operate the vehicle in your home jurisdiction then you are fine operating the vehicle in other jurisdictions no mater what he local licensing laws may be.

Permanent vehicle modifications are an interesting legal grey area. Generally as long as your modifications are legal in your home jurisdiction an officer will not ticket you however in many areas this is actually a matter of courtesy and not a legal requirement. This is because most laws concerning modifications do not make exceptions for out of jurisdiction vehicles so unless the jurisdiction has a law specifically exempting out of jurisdiction vehicles from such laws ALL vehicles are technically subject to the laws.

 

[Jeff Porter]

This is confusing because we are lumping three different areas of the law into one discussion. There is a legal line separating how vehicles are operated, how vehicles are regulated, and how vehicle modifications are regulated. Laws concerning how vehicles should be operated (helmets and traffic laws) are always subject to local jurisdictional control. Laws about the regulation of vehicles (tax, tag, title, insurance, licensing) are always applied in the home jurisdiction. Vehicle modifications laws however sit in a legal grey area.

Helmets requirements, lane spitting, and lane sharing rules are all part of traffic law and you are always required to follow local traffic laws. These regulation are all related to the manner in which vehicles are operated.

Vehicle license plates, insurance requirements, and operator endorsement requirements are covered under licensing law and is reciprocal across jurisdictions. As long as you are legally entitled to operate the vehicle in your home jurisdiction then you are fine operating the vehicle in other jurisdictions no mater what he local licensing laws may be.

Permanent vehicle modifications are an interesting legal grey area. Generally as long as your modifications are legal in your home jurisdictions an officer will not ticket you however in many areas this is actually a matter of courtesy and not actually a legal requirement. This is because most laws concerning modifications do not make exceptions for out of jurisdiction vehicles so unless the jurisdiction has a law specifically exempting out of jurisdiction vehicles from such laws ALL vehicles are technically subject to the laws.

LOL, holy cow all of these bits are complicated and difficult to follow. We need a test! LOL If you get 17 out of 20 right, you are CELK: Certified Elio Law Knowledgeable.

 

[goofyone]

LOL, holy cow all of these bits are complicated and difficult to follow. We need a test! LOL If you get 17 out of 20 right, you are CELK: Certified Elio Law Knowledgeable.

It is complicated! I am not an lawyer however I was fortunate enough to have a chance to discuss these issues in an online chat with Joel Sheltrown, Elio's Government Affairs VP, and this is the way he understand the issues. I also raised these issues with an attorney friend of mine who also confirms that this is the way he understands it to be.

 

[bowers baldwin]

Bought my first street bike in 2004 brand new from Suzuki dealer...no MC license.

Got a permit by getting a money order and was able to ride in daylight hours but with no passenger and had to wear a helmet. After passing the test and getting a license, still had to get 2 years in before being able to ride legally without a helmet.

Apparently this was a new law (2013) the dealer said he could have sold it to me the previous year W/O an MC lic. but due to new regs he could not sell me the bike. I don't know if this will be an issue going forward, for me it's no big deal, I have 5 bikes and I could just get off my butt and take the test. For others this might be a HUGE deal if they can't even title the Elio in their names, and getting a class M might be impossible for some (thinking of you Z).
It's one thing to just say damn the helmet laws and simply ride without, it's another to get stuck on simply not being able to buy this 'car' at all.

 

[zelio]

It is complicated! I am not an lawyer however I was fortunate enough to have a chance to discuss these issues in an online chat with Joel Sheltrown, Elio's Government Affairs VP, and this is the way he understand the issues. I also raised these issues with an attorney friend of mine who also confirms that this is the way he understands it to be.

Did Okuma Steve realize what a Gold Mine he struck when he agreed to allow you volunteer to be a moderator? I love having you here because I always learn so much from you. My sincerest hope is that I get to meet you and thank you in person some day. Actually, I hope to meet all of the moderators and Okuma Steve someday. That would be so cool!!! Z

 

[zelio]

Apparently this was a new law (2013) the dealer said he could have sold it to me the previous year W/O an MC lic. but due to new regs he could not sell me the bike. I don't know if this will be an issue going forward, for me it's no big deal, I have 5 bikes and I could just get off my butt and take the test. For others this might be a HUGE deal if they can't even title the Elio in their names, and getting a class M might be impossible for some (thinking of you Z).
It's one thing to just say damn the helmet laws and simply ride without, it's another to get stuck on simply not being able to buy this 'car' at all.

Thanks for the thoughts, bowers baldwin. I'm OK in Oregon because our DMV regs are practically right out of the AAMVA Best Practices document. Elio will be licensed as a motorcycle and no endorsement or helmet is required. I guess it is a good thing I like living here. I used to move about every 3 years. LOL :-) Z

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

Apparently this was a new law (2013) the dealer said he could have sold it to me the previous year W/O an MC lic. but due to new regs he could not sell me the bike. I don't know if this will be an issue going forward, for me it's no big deal, I have 5 bikes and I could just get off my butt and take the test. For others this might be a HUGE deal if they can't even title the Elio in their names, and getting a class M might be impossible for some (thinking of you Z).
It's one thing to just say damn the helmet laws and simply ride without, it's another to get stuck on simply not being able to buy this 'car' at all.

Your state legislature should find something better to do with its time.

Some new pickups tow enough to be in CDL rules territory (depending on trailer towed), do they require everyone buying a new F 350 to have a CDL?

My point is, buying a legal product should be legal, regardless of the owner's ability to legally OPERATE it. I could see a dealer not letting you drive it off the lot w/o the MC endorsement.